Do you think Memphis could send their elephants to TES? They got three cows a few years ago (around the time TES got Nosey). Why didn't those three go to TES? because those people are saying TES is a breeding ground of TB which is not true of course. The only ones that came with TB is the Hawthorne group, and how it was spread to the other Asian habitat was why Carol Buckely was fired (partially the reason). But it is all under control now with the new board.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
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Do you think Memphis could send their elephants to TES? They got three cows a few years ago (around the time TES got Nosey). Why didn't those three go to TES? because those people are saying TES is a breeding ground of TB which is not true of course. The only ones that came with TB is the Hawthorne group, and how it was spread to the other Asian habitat was why Carol Buckely was fired (partially the reason). But it is all under control now with the new board.
The Horse Boy
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Are you referring to Bambi who arrived in 2022 who an ex circus elephant?
There were 3 former circus elephants.
Bambi and Daisy came from Circus Pages
Kosti came from Brian Franzen. His other African went to another zoo. (not sure where his Asian went). There is a video of his Asian spooking at some birds and the Africans reacting. I believe you can find it on YouTube. Kosti is the one you are thinking of, she came in 2022.
The Horse Boy
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Polar bear fan
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That’s not the issue, the issue is that Memphis needed more elephants because their cows were older and the ex circus cows were the only ones available. These animals are there under agreements with the owners who can come see them whenever they want because it’s a public facility. TES doesn’t allow anyone on the property, so they don’t want their girls sent somewhere they can’t have access to them.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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I'm still not certian on what Memphis' long-term goals are. They seem fairly committed to elephants (and given the situation with their former circus animals that would make transferring out their girls a challenge), and have what appear to be solid plans for a larger exhibit. However, it appears as though their new exhibit will be mixed-species, which is fairly unorthodox/nearly unheard of when it comes to breeding or bachelor setups for a variety of reasons. Their concept maps aren't terribly clear on this but it looks like they'll be connected via a bridge for the animals to cross.
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The Horse Boy
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Given how compacted that new african area will be, and the whole zoo, I feel the whole new space alloted to elephants won't be ginormous, possibly a lot smaller than Omaha sdsp and Sedgwick, so probably more or less in the 2-3 acre range, thus most likely not sufficient for accomodating large breeding herds. If i'm correct, in recent years, the requisite for brand new elephant housing are 2 full acres at the bare minimum- with Audubon being exceptionally 1 acre as the whole enchilada.
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Memphis is extremely landlocked. Last I was there several years ago, they had two public exhibits for the elephants, separated by a wall. Then I saw the news video of Daisy and Bambi, same situation. The elephants could reach over to each other. Then Kosti came I saw a pic of her with a different setting so maybe they did some small changes.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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The new exhibit doesn't look too terrible in terms of size. One large yard, a smaller yard and an off-exhibit yard and what I presume (?) is a rennovated barn. Likely still on the smaller size as mentioned, but a pretty decent upgrade. There are numerous smaller exhibits throughout the country that house a small breeding group in 2-3 acre exhibits and do just fine, and certianly small bachelor groups in that setting. However the primary issue with this concept is the mixed-species aspect of the exhibit. I don't know if there's any precedent of mixing calves or bachelor bulls with other hoofstock. Obviously this isn't a huge issue currently since I believe geriatric females can co-exist with other species just fine, but in even a few decades they'll likely be in a position where they have to "pick a path" so to speak.
Yes, they have. Tarra was a former performing elephant. Then Shirley and Jenny were circus elephants before they went to a zoo (Shirley in LA) and animal shelter (Jenny in Nevada). Then they had USDA seizures from Hawthorn, taking all but one cow (Gypsy who is now at PAWS) and one bull (Nic at PAWS). Then they had Ned (from some private owner, Lance ???). Then Flora (moved from Miami where her owner was boarding and it was a voluntary retirement, her owner died shortly after), and Nosey (seizure due to neglect and abuse).
Boras in Sweden mixes their family heard with other hoofstock and as far as I can tell, they have had calves on exhibit with them
And Servilla in Spain had them in with the young bulls also. (obviously before the beetle incident). Bronx could do this as well with the young bull elephants, deer and rhinos in a couple large areas. But as we can see from that thread its all up in the air.
Does anyone know of any mixed species habitats in USA? I am trying to think. Both Asian and African with what ??
Tampa has mixed their herd with Nilgai, pheasants and currently with Impala. Dallas has also mixed their calves in with Kudu, giraffe, Zebra, Impala and Ostrich.
The Horse Boy
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By the look of it, the overall size of allocated elephant space will probably equate to the facilities at elephant odyssey maryland atlanta and Milwaukee, 2 of which opened only 5 years ago as exhibits built from scratch. But the question is should 2 acres be the bare minimum for newer enclosures. In my book between 1 and 1.5 acres or between 1.5 and 2 is still far from bad or unethical if designed right with beautiful enriching features and an ability to contain a smaller but proper herd structure.
Honestly, I would prefer minimum 4-5 acres for the elephants and that is in outdoor space. 2 acres would be ok for 3-4 elephants, but the enrichment has to be really good and they have to get along.
The Columbus Zoo indoor elephant habitat looks really nice from what I have seen so that would be my ideal elephant barn. They built it in mind of the winters, I am sure.
The Horse Boy
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Eh, I guess it depends. I've seen great enriching elephant enclosures around the 2-3-4 acre range. The US only has very few exhibits going over 5 acres. I think acreage doesn't really matter when it's beautifully designed with enriching details.