Blackbrook sounds like a topnotch collection, but I guess that if its not in the EAZA (I wonder why not?) then 'rules are rules' even if they seem unrealistic or silly in this instance. I imagine you could keep three sibling male RRH's together indefinately- either castrated or not- and without females there would be no breeding problem anyway. But yes, I think its a political/bureauratic muddle they've got into here.
Edinburgh Zoo Not again!
- Thread starter Nisha
- Start date
I find it difficult to be rational - on the one hand I'm very fond of th RRHs at YWP and if they had babies I'd find it hard to accept them being culled but on the other hand I like a bit of pork and that was some pig's sweet little baby. I try to buy pork that had an OK life but how many of the people getting upset over these animals has thoughtlessly eaten some poor pig that had a hellish life.
Still not saying I like it!
Still not saying I like it!
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Culling is not common in all zoos, there are a number who hardly ever cull and have complex ethical review procedures and boards to prevent situations like this arising.
But whatever the logistics at Edinburgh, stand back and consider how the general public would perceive a statement such as the above. The negative PR impact is considerable, and that is an increasingly important factor.
EAZA is an expensive and time-consuming process to join, particularly for a smaller collection. Most small collections are happy enough to join BIAZA to give the collection credibility and be able to work with other zoos in the country. EAZA is just a bit of a bigger step.
Surprised that RRHs are managed at European level given how common they are and easy to breed.
That's a good point - animals are culled daily to provide meat for us, so what makes that acceptable? The fact that they are being killed for a reason, maybe. So, would it solve the problem if the meat was given to some of the zoos carnivores. Or, would the general public not make the connections between zoo animals and farm animals?
For the record, Blackbrook is a full member of EAZA, as per the EAZA website: EAZA Membership - Zoos and Aquariums
Just to clarify, Blackbrook are now full members of EAZA. I suspect, however, that the enclosure intended for the Red River Hogs, has since been occupied by Visayan Warty Pigs.
It seems perverse that a collection which was regarded (in the eyes of the zoo world) as unsuitable to house a very common species of pig was given a rare species around a year later.
It seems perverse that a collection which was regarded (in the eyes of the zoo world) as unsuitable to house a very common species of pig was given a rare species around a year later.
Oops! Great minds think alike and all that ...
If this was a non-recommended breeding then the piglets would not be part of the program.
Thus, Edinburgh can do what they like with them. There are protocols in place that would allow them to go to independent zoos.
This sort of thing happens all the time in Australia and with species of much greater conservation significance. Nobody gets sent to the naughty corner as a result.
bloodycurtus
Well-Known Member
just to clear up blackbrook where never refused red river hogs for any reason, we looked into getting either red river hogs or visayan warty pigs. After personaly contacting both stud book keepers we decided to go down the route of the visayan warty pig. There was a few reasons for this decision with the main ones being that the red river hog genetics where i quite a mess with most being related, the other is that the visayan warty pig is a criticly endangered species which so far has a manageble population and also has a in-situ conservation project.
Hope this goes some way to clear up the situation, and just to clarify what people have said Blackbrook IS a full member of EAZA and has been for a few years now!
Hope this goes some way to clear up the situation, and just to clarify what people have said Blackbrook IS a full member of EAZA and has been for a few years now!
mazfc
Well-Known Member
Its not the culling as such that I have an issue as I understand that sometimes it is unavoidable, but what I do have a problem with is that these hogs were allowed to breed again in the first place! If the litter are not wanted - don't breed them.
I'm afraid I don't buy the argument that pigs need to breed regularly to keep up breeding cycle in five years time! In five years timeget new hogs if these can no longer breed.
I'm afraid I don't buy the argument that pigs need to breed regularly to keep up breeding cycle in five years time! In five years timeget new hogs if these can no longer breed.
... and if the reason they are unwanted is because they are genetically surplus, why should they want to breed from the parents again in the future anyway, particularly in this species where most members of the zoo population are extremely closely related due to a very small founder base? Pull the other one...these arguments just aren't watertight..
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My mistake, I went into a world of my own with that and thought there was no breeding recommendation due to a full capacity in the current keepers of the species.
Is there no wonder that there is an anti zoo feeling in this country when someone comes onto a zoo enthusiasts chat forum and spouts this verbal diarrhea? My advice to you is get to the chemist for the appropriate medication and hopefully it will soon clear up.
Simon McGlary
Well-Known Member
Of course it also has to be noted that breeding zoos are effectively caring for the species rather than individuals. Still not an enviable position for Edinburgh to be in!
Personally speaking, I'd like to see RRH follow meerkats and ring tailed lemurs out of the collection if they are so well populated. I would much rather see unusual endangered animals. However there is the balance of a mix of endangered and crowd pleasing is the balance zoos have to face daily!
Personally speaking, I'd like to see RRH follow meerkats and ring tailed lemurs out of the collection if they are so well populated. I would much rather see unusual endangered animals. However there is the balance of a mix of endangered and crowd pleasing is the balance zoos have to face daily!
Dicerorhinus
Well-Known Member
Regarding letting the animals breed again.
I am not sure what the gestation for a RRH is but a domestic sow its arround 115 days. I havnt been following this story closely (I think it's a storm in tea cup) and so I'm not failiar with dates and timings. Is it possible the sow was already pregnant when the zoo discovered it could home the first farrow?
I am not sure what the gestation for a RRH is but a domestic sow its arround 115 days. I havnt been following this story closely (I think it's a storm in tea cup) and so I'm not failiar with dates and timings. Is it possible the sow was already pregnant when the zoo discovered it could home the first farrow?
The best enrichment zoo animals can have is their natural cycle of breeding and rearing young. If you run a breeding programme and fill all the available spaces with contracepted or single sex groups you very quickly have a non-breeding programme
Copenhagen have a pride of lions and there signage clearly states they are allowed to breed freely and the surplus culled. They also take culled stock from other Danish collections and feed whole carcasess. I watched, with a large crowd, 15 lions ripping apart an Eland. They worked as a real pride, so much more natural than fat contracepted lions.
We could learn alot from the Danes realistic attitude to managing livestock.
Copenhagen have a pride of lions and there signage clearly states they are allowed to breed freely and the surplus culled. They also take culled stock from other Danish collections and feed whole carcasess. I watched, with a large crowd, 15 lions ripping apart an Eland. They worked as a real pride, so much more natural than fat contracepted lions.
We could learn alot from the Danes realistic attitude to managing livestock.
Is there not a late chemist open near to where you live? , if not try a pint of milk, it could cure it
The arguement with regards to the slaughtering of domestic pigs against the RRH is ridiculous in my opinion. These animals have been domesticated over 100's of years for the sole purpose of providing meat.
However the RRH at the zoo are not domesticated and are not bred for consumption, it appears the zoo like to have the cute little baby hogs running around for a few weeks to please the general public. This is the same as the attitude taken by copenhagen zoo with regards to the lions young, which i suspect is motivated by pleasing the public as opposed to animal welfare. To breed animals to provide amusement and then have them culled is inhumane IMO, afterall isnt the purpose of zoo's these days meant to be to conserve and protect?!
However the RRH at the zoo are not domesticated and are not bred for consumption, it appears the zoo like to have the cute little baby hogs running around for a few weeks to please the general public. This is the same as the attitude taken by copenhagen zoo with regards to the lions young, which i suspect is motivated by pleasing the public as opposed to animal welfare. To breed animals to provide amusement and then have them culled is inhumane IMO, afterall isnt the purpose of zoo's these days meant to be to conserve and protect?!