circus Memories- UK.

[Steve Robinson]

My comment was a general one directed at all the previous posters who felt the need to establish their current political correctness. Please don't take it personally.

With regard to your comments about the perceived stressfullness of travelling on animals such as elephants, it may help to learn that studies done by experts such as Dr Ted Friend in the USA and Dr Kiley-Worthington in the UK proved that travelling does not necessarily stress circus animals. To them it is familiar and part of their "home".

There is only one UK circus elephant alive in the UK because the others have been exported or have died of old age and have not been replaced.

Thanks for sharing your memories with us.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Fair enough

 

[TARZAN]

It could be that soon wild animals in circuses in the U.K. could only be a memory as I understand that the current government are soon to make a decision once and for all about making the use of wild animals illegal in travelling circuses.

 

[John Dineley]

It could be that soon wild animals in circuses in the U.K. could only be a memory as I understand that the current government are soon to make a decision once and for all about making the use of wild animals illegal in travelling circuses.

Full Repsonse from PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday 17 March 2011

Wild Animals (Circuses)

11. Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab):
When she plans to announce her policy on wild
animals in circuses. [47206]

The Minister of State, Department for Environment,
Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): Following
further discussions withwelfare groups, the circus industry
and other parties involved with performing animals, I
am pleased to tell the hon. Gentleman that the
Government’s policy is now close to completion.

Jim Fitzpatrick: I am pleased to hear that the policy
is close to completion, but I am sure that the Minister
will realise that his answer is somewhat disappointing—not
just to me, but to Members of all parties, to organisations
such as the Born Free Foundation, Animal Defenders
and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
Animals and, not least, to the 94.5% of the 13,000
respondents who said last March that they wanted this
practice stopped.We have now reached the anniversary,
so how much longer is it going to take?

Mr Paice: No one will be more pleased than I will be
when the issue is closed and the hon. Gentleman stops
asking me the question. I can assure him that, although
I cannot give a precise time, the policy is very close to
completion. However, as he knows, because he used to
be the responsible Minister, other issues are relevant,
such as the impact on the film and theatre industry and
other areas where animals are involved in performances,
and we have to clarify them and get them right before
we announce anything.

 

[John Dineley]

With regard to your comments about the perceived stressfullness of travelling on animals such as elephants, it may help to learn that studies done by experts such as Dr Ted Friend in the USA and Dr Kiley-Worthington in the UK proved that travelling does not necessarily stress circus animals. To them it is familiar and part of their "home".

There has been a couple of reports and, of course, Kiley-Worthington who had to self-publish because I believe the RSPCA, who had cosponsored her investigation where not happy with her findings.

Her full report is on line HERE

The initial break down of the findings from the DEFRA circus consultation can with other supporting documentation be found HERE

The results seem to be a very high amount of public support to ban wild animals in travelling circuses. The only thing that concerns me (and always had as regards animal welfare) is that public opinion is not the same as actual research into finding out if these animal suffer and has a lot more to do with the success of the propaganda campaigns of the various animal groups opposed to circuses with wild animals.

Further I suspect these groups will continue to campaign to ban all animal acts in circuses using domestic animals such as horses; they were when I visited Zippos Circus a few years ago which have horses and Norman Barratt budgie act. This, of course, might be very problematic as this could then have a knock on effect to the use of these animals in any form of event ranging from greyhound racing, show jumping and even local gymkhana.

If (and it seem likely) when there is a ban I hope those celebrating will take note that sometime in the future they may find some form of 'special interest' they enjoy being banned not because it is right and supported by actual empirical evidence but because public opinion deems it so. And to that end if you read the DEFRA initial findings one comment from those against circuses reads regarding the re-homing of ex-circus animals that:

All preferred re-homing in a specialist sanctuary in preference to a zoo, and only when a sanctuary was not available should a high-quality zoo be considered.​

As a Chinese proverb says: "be careful what you wish for".

 

[TARZAN]

It has been reported in the national press that Animal Defenders International have video evidence of Anne, the last elephant in a U. K. circus being badly beaten by a Romanian groom when recently in the employ of Bobby Roberts Super Circus winter quarters at Polebrook Northants. this video evidence can be seen on the A.D.I. website, however I must warn you it is not very pleasant.

 

[John Dineley]

It has been reported in the national press that Animal Defenders International have video evidence of Anne, the last elephant in a U. K. circus being badly beaten by a Romanian groom when recently in the employ of Bobby Roberts Super Circus winter quarters at Polebrook Northants. this video evidence can be seen on the A.D.I. website, however I must warn you it is not very pleasant.

Very shocking and totally unjustifiable treatment of an animal.

However, what I find puzzling is according to the Press Association ADI "shot the covert video over three weeks earlier this year". If this is so why didn't they go straight to the police but waited to present this in a press release?

It seems to me they were quite happy to view this animals continued abuse and suffering over *five weeks to further their own agenda which makes them hypocrites to say the least. As it is, it appears that the groom who did this has now fled the UK and the chances of him been caught and prosecuted will now be zero.

This is appalling on so many levels.

*The animal in question was filmed been beaten between January 21 - until February 15. Animal Defenders International release the video to the press on 26 March - 38 days later after the last filmed beating.

 

[TARZAN]

Very shocking and totally unjustifiable treatment of an animal.

However, what I find puzzling is according to the Press Association ADI "shot the covert video over three weeks earlier this year". If this is so why didn't they go straight to the police but waited to present this in a press release?

It seems to me they were quite happy to view this animals continued abuse and suffering over three weeks to further their own agenda which makes them hypocrites to say the least. As it is, it appears that the groom who did this has now fled the UK and the chances of him been caught and prosecuted will now be zero.

This is appalling on so many levels.

Yes John you are of coarse correct, the same was said when A.D.I. filmed Mary Chipperfield and her staff at her farm in Hampshire, also at the Great British Circus when they filmed a groom who was later dismissed beating three elephants that were on tour with that show two years ago, I suppose from the A.D.I.s point of view the more evidence they can get the "better", it just seams so sad to me that people have to go to these measures to expose the truth. This despicable behavior is completely unjustified and it certainly does not bode well for any future wild animals may have in U.K. travelling circuses.

 

[John Dineley]

This despicable behavior is completely unjustified and it certainly does not bode well for any future wild animals may have in U.K. travelling circuses.

I think this will the nail in the coffin of wild animals in UK circuses. Zoo elephants and their handling will be the next target and that's already begun.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1024473718478&ssbinary=true

 

[TARZAN]

I think this will the nail in the coffin of wild animals in UK circuses. Zoo elephants and their handling will be the next target and that's already begun.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1024473718478&ssbinary=true

Yes, I remember having a conversation with an elephant keeper at Whipsnade shortly after Mary Chipperfield and her husband and groom had been prosecuted. The keeper told me that this incident had also done the zoos harm as well as the circuses, which of coarse was very unfair, how can Anne's quality of life be compared with that of dear old Sheba at Chester, comparison? there isn't one.

 

[zoogiraffe]

how can Anne's quality of life be compared with that of dear old Sheba at Chester, comparison? there isn't one.

Well forgive me if I`m wrong Anne`s quality of life is better than Sheba`s at the moment on the grounds,that she is still alive!
Also have seen Anne on more than one occassion last year she was always looking very well,in fact at times looked in better condition than Sheba did at Chester during last year!!
Finally the person that did this no longer works for the circus,because Bobby Roberts certainly wouldn`t employ somebody after they did that to Anne!!

 

[CritterBlog]

Video of beatings

Britain's last circus elephant, Anne: Battered, kicked and stabbed | Mail Online

Inquiry starts into elephant abuse video

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-12874184

 

[TARZAN]

Well forgive me if I`m wrong Anne`s quality of life is better than Sheba`s at the moment on the grounds,that she is still alive!
Also have seen Anne on more than one occassion last year she was always looking very well,in fact at times looked in better condition than Sheba did at Chester during last year!!
Finally the person that did this no longer works for the circus,because Bobby Roberts certainly wouldn`t employ somebody after they did that to Anne!!

Do you know how old Anne is? she is quoted as being 58 and the oldest elephant in Europe. I have programmes from the seventies and eightees quoting the names and ages of the elephants on the Robert Brothers circus, ie Mary, Janie, Rebecca, Maureen, Beverly and Anne. It would appear that Anne is about ten years younger than what is claimed, this will tally with the size of these elephants which I remember seeing perform on the Newcastle Town Moor in 1975, the September of. Secondly I am surprised that you now feal the need to reply to my postings as I recall you were blocking me since my remarks made about the red river hogs at Edinburgh Zoo

 

[zoogiraffe]

Secondly I am surprised that you now feal the need to reply to my postings as I recall you were blocking me since my remarks made about the red river hogs at Edinburgh Zoo

Well you where but I believe in giving people a second chance,even if they do go round wearing rose tinted glasses all the time!

As for Anne age I think the truth is nobody is really sure,because even Chester are not really sure how old Sheba was when they took the hard decision to put her to sleep!!

 

[TARZAN]

Would nice to think they will catch the person that did this but if he has left the UK I suspect this may not happen

I do not consider my self to be a violent person, outspoken yes but not violent, however in the case of this "person" knocking hells bells out of Anne the elephant I could easily administer similar treatment to him hope they catch him.

 

[John Dineley]

I do not consider my self to be a violent person, outspoken yes but not violent, however in the case of this "person" knocking hells bells out of Anne the elephant I could easily administer similar treatment to him hope they catch him.

A very sad state of affairs. And it wasn't just the elephant if you look at some of the other highlighted back ground treatment of other animals in the winter quarters.

 

[TARZAN]

A very sad state of affairs. And it wasn't just the elephant if you look at some of the other highlighted back ground treatment of other animals in the winter quarters.

Spitting in the face of the camel and badly treating ponies, I wonder what sort of references were taken up by this groom's employer, surely one has to be particular who one employs when the welfare of animals is to be considered.

 

[hedigerfan]

Although my understanding is that the single female African elephant at Paignton Zoo is doing very well following the health-based euthanasia of their Asian female, would it be appropriate to consider moving the Roberts' single elephant there?

 

[TARZAN]

Well forgive me if I`m wrong Anne`s quality of life is better than Sheba`s at the moment on the grounds,that she is still alive!
Also have seen Anne on more than one occassion last year she was always looking very well,in fact at times looked in better condition than Sheba did at Chester during last year!!
Finally the person that did this no longer works for the circus,because Bobby Roberts certainly wouldn`t employ somebody after they did that to Anne!!

How many hours per day is Anne shackled in chains in both a front and back leg? Is it correct to transport an elephant around the country in a lorry when she has arthritis? When was the last time Anne interacted and had the company of other elephants?

 

[John Dineley]

Although my understanding is that the single female African elephant at Paignton Zoo is doing very well following the health-based euthanasia of their Asian female, would it be appropriate to consider moving the Roberts' single elephant there?

As Anne has been used to being transported that could be an idea provided she and the other elephant get along. It's down to Roberts I guess as he clearly is very attached to her but if she was my elephant I would have retired her to the company of other elephants sometime ago.