I was thinking that too. All the large flightless birds evolved in Predator rich environments. Texas has a lot of small predators though. I've read that Germany has a feral population of Rhea living north of Hamburg.
Hunting ranches
- Thread starter thor
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I was thinking that too. All the large flightless birds evolved in Predator rich environments. Texas has a lot of small predators though. I've read that Germany has a feral population of Rhea living north of Hamburg.
Depending on how exactly you view Man's place in the World, you could argue that Hunting messes with Natural Selection, but most Natural Resource Dept (or Game Keepers across the Pond) factor that into population management. Just about every large mammal alive evolved with some Hominid hunting pressure and modern wildlife management is not going to cause an extinction.
Indeed the existence of Sportsmen funded Wildlife Depts help ensure that habit loss or population declines brought about by non- hunting causes are quickly detected and acted upon. Lets also not forget that managed hunting preserves the Hominid's place in the natural world and ensures an interest in Conservation.
I'm not a hunter, but I'm not a Peaceable Kingdom idealist either. Hunting is critical to Conservation in North America. Watch how soon western Feral Horse herds are going to be used in Condor Restoration ( in my humble opinion). It would give the Horses a reason to be there, help small scavenger populations, and restore the ecological rhythm of the West. I believe this method if adopted will owe a lot to the Dutch.
Indeed the existence of Sportsmen funded Wildlife Depts help ensure that habit loss or population declines brought about by non- hunting causes are quickly detected and acted upon. Lets also not forget that managed hunting preserves the Hominid's place in the natural world and ensures an interest in Conservation.
I'm not a hunter, but I'm not a Peaceable Kingdom idealist either. Hunting is critical to Conservation in North America. Watch how soon western Feral Horse herds are going to be used in Condor Restoration ( in my humble opinion). It would give the Horses a reason to be there, help small scavenger populations, and restore the ecological rhythm of the West. I believe this method if adopted will owe a lot to the Dutch.
Exactly right, all the animals alive today are evolved to be Holocene animals for that reason. They evolved around humans.
There is also this place called Iron Mountain Ranch in texas, i dont know if it is a hunting ranch but they have animals like Mishmi takin, Soemmerrings gazelle, Slender horned gazelle, Bharal, White lipped deer and Nilgiri tahr, like Thor I think hunting for food or sport is cruel brutal and barbaric, but what I am starting to think is what ever saves these astonishing and rare hoofstock species must be done, meaning hunting ranches and programs are acceptable if they keep the species alive and well. Does anybody else have on opinion this ?[/QUOTE]
I guess I find myself close to this sentiment philosophically, although without the moral judgement against hunting.
I guess I find myself close to this sentiment philosophically, although without the moral judgement against hunting.
azcheetah2
Well-Known Member
How is that even the same thing? Are you saying that if someone is opposed to hunting ranches has to be a vegetarian or they are some sort of hypocrite? That's ridiculous. I am against hunting of any sort except when it's all there is to feed your family. Hunting ranches do it so some big shot can have a trophy to hang on his wall and brag about how he killed it. Keeping big game or trophy animals on a farm so people can pay thousands of dollars to kill them is barbaric and serves no purpose.
It fills an economic niche and takes pressure off wild populations how is that not smart?
I believe that people who are against such places, but have no qualms about going through the McDonald's drive-thru for a Big Mac have not thought the issue through.
Some one eating a big mac is supporting intensive farming at the expense of wild animals, while someone who pays to shoot a rare species at a game farm is supporting the population of that species into the future.
Get used to the Idea!
We're going to have to see a lot more game reserves if we want to see private/corperate investment in wildlife & bio diversity. A few unwashed tree hugger greenies ain't going to save a thing.
"The wise & ethical use of wildlife can be consistent with & encourage conservation."
(IUCN)
Cheers Khakibob
We're going to have to see a lot more game reserves if we want to see private/corperate investment in wildlife & bio diversity. A few unwashed tree hugger greenies ain't going to save a thing.
"The wise & ethical use of wildlife can be consistent with & encourage conservation."
(IUCN)
Cheers Khakibob
Khaki here only reinforces my opinions about how I love Australians. If we could change the Abbott governments view of my semiautomatics I might just immigrant there.
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It's funny to see this thread brought back to life all of a sudden. But I wanted to clear up a few points since I was referenced in one of the quotes. I myself do not hunt never have never will. However I do not have issue with those that do hunt for food. Where this thread was born from was the inner conflict I had over whether hunting ranches were acceptable in order to maintain rare species in captivity. I have always had issue with hunting for sport. However I have come to terms with the fact that big game hunting does help conversation. It is not my ideal world but it is the world we live in...compromise...
Also Thor if it helps I know a good many of the big time game hunters especially those based in Africa make sure "someone" eats the meat even if the hunting client doesn't want it. I know a lot ends up donated to local villages.
Same thing in America, check out Farmers/Hunters feeding the Hungry. I always kill one big doe a season just for them.
Same thing in America, check out Farmers/Hunters feeding the Hungry. I always kill one big doe a season just for them.
That'll teach me to sleep in - when did that happen??????
Should happen pretty soon from what I've observed watching polls and such.
There's only one poll that matters and that will be on September 14.
The Australian electorate has been a very volatile one in recent years - no telling what will happen from this far out.
The Vegan
Well-Known Member
Do you really believe hunting has caused all of those evolutions?
Bipedal stance did not evolve solely from hunting. Chimpanzees hunt-they don't stand bipedally. Evidence points to bipedal stance evolving from a need to carry-not particularly carcasses.
Binocular vision has nothing to do with hunting. Our vision evolved from the need to judge distances when we were arboreal organisms. Gorillas have binocular vision as well, my friend.
Opposable thumbs don't have anything to do with hunting either. Nearly every species of primate has opposable thumbs (with the exception being the gibbons, who lack useful thumbs because of their brachiating habits) Few are hunters.
Large brains? First of all, we don't have large brains. Brain size has little to do with what I think you mean-intelligence. We could argue this forever, but I don't think that you can prove that carnivorous or omnivorous species are more intelligent than herbivorous species.
If we evolved to be hunters, than why have some human populations-particularly those of the Indian subcontinent-lived vegetarian or flexitarian for generations?
Lastly, poaching or hunting, both forms aim for the strongest or fittest animals, thus decreasing the health of the species.
Best wishes, TV
Suddenly, evolution in this thread????
Well, I do believe that the hunting ranches in the US do benefit conservation purposes and have enabled many endangered species populations to be kept in larger numbers than can ever be dreamed up in a zoo environment.
Having said that ... I do find it strange to have to come to terms with a scimitars being hunted whereas the species remains EXTINCT in THE WILD ...
Well, I do believe that the hunting ranches in the US do benefit conservation purposes and have enabled many endangered species populations to be kept in larger numbers than can ever be dreamed up in a zoo environment.
Having said that ... I do find it strange to have to come to terms with a scimitars being hunted whereas the species remains EXTINCT in THE WILD ...
Those statements are both wrong in most cases. Most poaching is done using snares and indiscriminately kill everything which gets snared. Poachers after larger animals using guns kill every Elephant or Rino with tusks or horn, they dont only go after big ones.
The majority of animals killed by legal hunting are female or young for meat. Trophy males are a minority. In a lot of cases now hunters try and manage the populations by shooting animals with malformed antlers to prevent them breeding. Often more "culls" are shot than trophy animals.
I agree, I have issues with the hunting of scimitars when they are extinct in the wild. Has there been an honest attempt at restoring these "surplus" animals into the wild, or at least transporting them to their native ranges to attempt to breed some to release in the wild?
Elefante that ultimately is not the mission of the game ranches. but no these animals would not exist without the people talking care of them.
If someone could take a breeder stock group of Mountain Nyala from the Bale Mountains and raise them in a semi wild state in either the Ozarks or the Southern Appalachians they would thrive.
I don't get the borderline obsession of some naturalists when it comes to rewilding. Yes Scimitar belong in their native lang but until we get the local people to stop their non sense involving traditional medicine all you are doing is sending them to their suicide. It seems many many smart and taleneted Zoologists and Conservationlists need a crash course in Economics and Human Geography first.
Hate me if you guys must but if you ignore the practical human element on the ground then your obsessions with rewilding will ultimately fail.
If someone could take a breeder stock group of Mountain Nyala from the Bale Mountains and raise them in a semi wild state in either the Ozarks or the Southern Appalachians they would thrive.
I don't get the borderline obsession of some naturalists when it comes to rewilding. Yes Scimitar belong in their native lang but until we get the local people to stop their non sense involving traditional medicine all you are doing is sending them to their suicide. It seems many many smart and taleneted Zoologists and Conservationlists need a crash course in Economics and Human Geography first.
Hate me if you guys must but if you ignore the practical human element on the ground then your obsessions with rewilding will ultimately fail.
In the course of Human evolution yes. Hunting played a large part in the natural selection of what became the Sapiens line compared to many of the other lines of humans that arent around today.