zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Bristol`s plan is very much on hold so don`t get your hopes up of seeing them in the U.K anytime soon.yup, they are very much part of bristols plan!
A UK Collection applies for Dolphins
- Thread starter Cat-Man
- Start date
I thought that may be the case, and the same could be said for Edinburgh's most ambitious plans, couldn't it?
I'm sorry to be turning this into Sirenia in the UK instead of Cetacea, but as others have said I'd rather see manatees then dolphins. If The Deep got manatees for their new river buidling i'd be chuffed to bits.
im not, but they are one of the major species that they want to bring in.
Yes. I have never understood why we have not had manatees in UK zoological collection as many European collections have them and they seem also to breed reasonably well. Ironically ZSL did have manatees many years ago in the aquarium. One of my former Head Keepers transported them to the UK from South America on board a cargo vessel in a large tank. ZSl also had a young walrus for a while called "Alice" she lived in the elephant swimming pool in the Casson pavilion.
Interesting news quote regarding manatees in 'Soundings' the International Marine Animal Trainers Association magazine:
"Tiergarten Nuremberg – Nuremberg, GERMANY
The Tiergarten Nuremberg is proud to announce the birth of its 19th manatee (Trichechus manatus) on 21 January 2009. These fascinating animals have lived in Nuremberg since 1977 and are now in the F2 generation."
That's good news, maybe we will begin to see them in more zoos.
Generally how are manatees exhibited in Europe? I take it that the pools have to be entirely indoors, usually in a greenhouse or something? I saw some photos in the gallery of a European manatee pool (think it was Artis) that looked really quite disappointing and small. Nuremberg's enclosure also looks horribly small (I guess the same one that was built for them in the 70s,) yet they're breeding. Apparently Nuremberg is building a new enclosure soon. The 'in-vogue' manatee enclosure seems to be part of a Amazon Rainforest hall or something like?
And even the fur seal enclosure is not what one would call large (especially the land area). In order to create a good dolphin pool, "Britain's equivalent of a marine park" would probably have to utilise its entire area. Therefore, I am in agreement with dalek on this one and cannot help but ask that when you feel compelled to post things like this in future, a) please do it on the "Personal Vision" threads that you tirelessly promote, and b) first visit the collection as statements such as this are infuriating to those who have actually been to living coasts (by the way, the name suggests that they would not consider a highly controversial open ocean species). Furthermore, I believe most on this forum agree that it will be a long time before cetaceans return to captivity in Britain; so please stop posting comments about this in the vain hope your dreams will somehow become reality - I wish that Paignton aquired Javan Rhino but the forum is not littered with rumours of this happening.
I visited Living Coast last year and was quite disappointed. The fur seal exhibit was tiny and I got the impression they had been placed there as an after thought. With respect, it certainly appears to be designed by someone with very little working knowledge of pinnipeds and their requirements. The water clarity within the exhibits was poor on the day I visited; you couldn't see more than a metre or two into the tanks and huge amounts of unused space within the complex that could have been used for aquaria etc. I hated the kids inactive areas as waste of money that could have been spent on actual animal exhibits.
Although in fairness to Living Coast I have noted that there seems to be a rolling development of more animal displays to come in the future and I would revisit the collection again.
Certainly agree that by today standards the whole of the Living Coasts footprint would be needed to build a decent dolphin facility.
I would take issue that bottlenose dolphins (Tursiops truncates) are not a typical “open ocean” cetacean species they are coastal, which probably is the reason that adapt to captivity well. I have to add they are only "highly controversial" in captivity to those believe the hype from various animal-rights groups.
As for a future dolphin facility in the UK it is unlikely as we seem to have developed a reputation in this country of pandering to the animal-rights industry which love to used dolphins as a “no go” species that can not be maintained in captive care successfully with also, sadly, the tacit approval from some members of the zoo community. Ironically I presented a talk on this very issue at an ABWAK conference in 1994:
ZOOS AND THE TROJAN DOLPHIN?
Interestingly, despite this our European neighbours continue to display aquatic mammals and continue invest in the expansion and upgrade facilities; a case in point being Nuremberg for both its dolphins and manatees.
Tiergarten der Stadt Nürnberg: Dolphin Lagoon
Dolphins at Blackpool Zoo
The Deep is not owned by the same company as Blackpool Zoo - check associated companies on their website home page. The revamp of the sealion pool is just that - an upgrade to the pool surround to match the recent penguin exhibit. The pool itself is huge so will not, as I understand, be extended. In fact, having seen the penguin area next to it, there is nowhere to extend it. Blackpool is improving all the time - a staff member told me on a recent visit that they may look at remodelling the childrens zoo as well soon. I really don't think they would risk losing visitors over dolphins.
The Deep is not owned by the same company as Blackpool Zoo - check associated companies on their website home page. The revamp of the sealion pool is just that - an upgrade to the pool surround to match the recent penguin exhibit. The pool itself is huge so will not, as I understand, be extended. In fact, having seen the penguin area next to it, there is nowhere to extend it. Blackpool is improving all the time - a staff member told me on a recent visit that they may look at remodelling the childrens zoo as well soon. I really don't think they would risk losing visitors over dolphins.
John Dineley wrote: "I hated the kids inactive areas as waste of money..."
I suspect you meant "kids interactive areas"....but thinking about it, your description is probably more accurate!
It's sad that quite a few people within the UK zoo 'industry' have apparently fallen for the anti-zoo brigade's propaganda about dolphins in captivity.
I suspect you meant "kids interactive areas"....but thinking about it, your description is probably more accurate!
It's sad that quite a few people within the UK zoo 'industry' have apparently fallen for the anti-zoo brigade's propaganda about dolphins in captivity.
Personally, I really liked it and liked the fact that it was unique and put all of its resources into specialising in one area. The enclosures where, as I said, not huge but none of them were particularly small.
I agree that the kids areas were a waste of space and money as most just press a few buttons and walk off. An aquarium for coastal fishes or something similar would, in my opinion, have been a far better use of space.
You're the expert! Although I think the idea of Living Coasts is to exhibit animals which can live on land and in the sea, therefore dolphins are an unlikely candidate (except the Orcas of Argentina!)
Whether they should be controversial or not, dolphins undoubtedly are and I doubt a small collection such as Living Coasts would risk the loss of visitors which would likely result from obtaining them.
And even the fur seal enclosure is not what one would call large (especially the land area). In order to create a good dolphin pool, "Britain's equivalent of a marine park" would probably have to utilise its entire area. Therefore, I am in agreement with dalek on this one and cannot help but ask that when you feel compelled to post things like this in future, a) please do it on the "Personal Vision" threads that you tirelessly promote, and b) first visit the collection as statements such as this are infuriating to those who have actually been to living coasts (by the way, the name suggests that they would not consider a highly controversial open ocean species). Furthermore, I believe most on this forum agree that it will be a long time before cetaceans return to captivity in Britain; so please stop posting comments about this in the vain hope your dreams will somehow become reality - I wish that Paignton aquired Javan Rhino but the forum is not littered with rumours of this happening.[/QUOTE]
If the opening lines of this thread are anything to go by, you can expect a Javan Rhino thread and see you being quoted out of context in the very near future!
Nice to see Blackpool continuing to improve. It is owned by the Spanish based group Parques Reunidos. It used to be owned by Grant Leisure who originally took over the lease of the zoo from Blackpool Council.
.: Parques Reunidos : .
Parques Reunidos own a number of marine parks and aquaria world wide which includes cetaceans like bottlenose dolphins and the only breeding group of orcas in Europe at Marineland in France.
Marineland - Orca Pool
They could very easily build a dolphin facility at Blackpool and source the animals from captive breeding in their existing parks. I doubt if they would loose visitors - quite the opposite. However, they would have to put up with all the BS from the animal rights industry in the UK and may not think it is worth it.
At the end of the day if you want to see cetaceans in animal collections you only have to go across the channel to Holland, Belgium, France, Sweden, Germany and even Denmark, etc.
I'm sure someone mentioned on this forum (though I have no other evidence of this fact) that Living Coasts intended to display Sea Otters instead of Fur Seals but could not source the animals and so exhibited the seals instead.
I think wild caught animals could be obtained from Russian animal dealers. But perhaps the decided wisely that this would be a very clever idea.
Interesting article here:
esu sea otters in captivity - The Otter Project