Animals you'll never see in a zoo

[Ituri]

i've never heard of a "giant" sbale antelope before!

are they actually that much bigger than regular sable antelope?

Not really. They are the subspecies from Angola and they are called such because some of the largest trophies (horn-wise) have come from that variety. Hippotragus niger variani. Very rare, no one is sure how well they have survived the Angolan civil war if at all.

 

[MARK]

There was a report on the net a couple of years ago that they are still around, you should be able to find it with help from a search engine ok.

 

[Sun Wukong]

@Ituri: I got the info about the hog from European zookeepers/zoo staff who visited their colleagues at San Diego Zoo. All in all, it seems as though San Diego is not too sure what exactly it is. While some claim it's a specimen of the ivoriensis-subspecies of the Giant Forest Hog, others-including myself-would judge simply from the many morphological similarities to the Red River Hog in comparison to what is known about the Giant Forest Hog that it's rather a hypermelanistic Red River Hog. Brent Huffman addressed officials at SD Zoo considering a DNA-test-so far, results? The problem here is that there is hardly any data about this particular subspecies for reference.
For those who haven't see the animal in person:
San Diego Zoo's Animal Profiles for Kids: A Perky Pair of Pigs

Note: "At first we thought she was a giant forest hog. But after doing some genetics tests we think she may possibly be a new type of bush pig! She is currently the only western forest hog in North America!"
In the case the term hypermelanistic is not known: it's synonymous to the popular "melanism" i.e. overly pigmentation. Most popular example: Black Panther.

About the Giant sable antelopes: at the moment, no specimen is known to be kept in captivity. There have been sightings in 2002 and in 2004 the IZW in Berlin stated that faeces samples indicate that the subspecies is still alive. This was supported by photographical evidence in 2006.
http://www.izw-berlin.de/de/forschung/fg2/more/more_giant_sable.pdf

 

[Ituri]

That's really interesting. I've read the page before, but it was when they first got her and I'm pretty sure that bit about the genetic testing wasn't in it. It did kind of get me wondering, aren't bush pigs capable of hybridizing with domestic hogs? Thanks for the info.

 

[Sun Wukong]

You're welcome.
About Hybridisation in suidae: well, they are of different genera, but the Copenhagen babirusa & domestic pig mix showed that this shouldn't be a problem for "hogs in love"... However, I wouldn't go so far to assume her being a hybrid; in my opinion, especially the last photo on the link with the two of them close to each other supports the hypermelanistic theory.

 

[Ituri]

I was reading in Kingdon's Field Guide to African Mammals about bush-pig domestic pig hybrids being intentionally created in South Africa. I just thought I'd throw my hybrid theory out as something to consider/discuss. The hypermelanistic angle is a very viable one, the only thing that throws me is she doesn't seem to have all of the long fringes of hair on her face and ears as Potamochoerus pigs do. I'll have to dig through my personal photos and see if I took any of her.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Another suggestion for the "Animals You'll never see in a zoo"-section: most of Marc Van Roosmalen's discoveries, including the fascinating dwarf manatee. However, his mysterious black felid might make it to a zoo if ever discovered; can't think of a single big cat species in recent history (not counting some subspecies, the Bornean Clouded Leopard and cryptids like the Onza or the Marozi) that has not been kept in a zoo (with a specimen of the Onza even supposed to have been kept in Moctezuma's zoo).

 

[Pertinax]

with a specimen of the Onza even supposed to have been kept in Moctezuma's zoo).

The Onza is a very interesting creature. Tests indicate the one shot in 1986 in Sinaloa was no different in its DNA to a normal puma. So its widely regarded now that science dictates this mythical cat is just a puma.

Many people dispute whether the Onza was ever a 'real' species at all, or merely the smaller, more graceful form of Puma found in subtropical regions, as in Mexico. From the few pictures available of 'onzas' such as the one shot in Sinaloa in 1986 on which the DNA tests were carried out, show an animal virtually identical to a Puma, in all aspects of shape, size, colour and markings.

The one doubtful exception to this is the 'Shirk' cat- the onza shot in 1938 by a wealthy USA hunter Joseph Shirk. Old b/w 'Trophy' photos of this cat in the book' Onza!' again make it look very similar to a puma. Except for the photo of the mounted head(in snarling pose) of this cat at the very beginning of the book. While having the same facial marking as a Puma, this cat seems to have longer 'grizzled' fur, more like a Lynx than a puma's short fur- this was one of the characteristics mentioned by the Lee brothers -the experienced hunter/guides present on the hunt when Shirk killed his onza. Unfortunately its ears are mounted laid back against the head, so an indication of their relative size(supposed to be larger) isn't possible.

 

[Sun Wukong]

You forgot to mention another theory: that the "onza" shot & examined in 1986 might have been an irregular Mountain Lion individual with a Marfan syndrome- like genetic disorder.
There are plenty of cryptid cat reports worldwide-more than enough to write a book about (which Karl P.N. Shuker actually did by writing "Mystery Cats of the World" ), with the onza not even the most "spectacular" one in comparison to "Chad Saber-toothed cats", "Chinese Blue tigers" or African "water lions" (which happens to be an African term for Malapterurus sp, too). Quite a few of these sightings can be explained though due to originating to misidentification of known species, superstition or "Chinese Whispering Syndrome". (f.e. the Mngwa)
Keeping Roosmalen's success in discovering still unknown species and the interesting social behaviour reported of the mysterious cat in mind, I'd neverless bet my money on this kitten to pop up sooner or later...

 

[Pertinax]

You forgot to mention another theory: that the "onza" shot & examined in 1986 might have been an irregular Mountain Lion individual with a Marfan syndrome- like genetic disorder.

You're correct. Its neck and ears do look overlong and the body very slim, but the reddish colour is still exactly right for a 'tropical' puma. the same gene could also explain the previous 'onza's with similar appearance cropping up occassionally in that area in the past.

BUT have you seen the photo of the mounted head of the 1938 'Shirk' cat?
Its fur does look like Lynx(or wolf) fur, not Puma fur.

 

[Sun Wukong]

No, I can't remember seeing a photo of that head so far. And I'd rather prefer to look at fur in person than looking at it on a photo before making a judgement.
However, when it comes to fur colour, cougars are almost as variable as the names given to the species; even individuals of the same litter can have different colours. Therefore this is no reliable evidence when trying to determine whether Puma concolor concolor f.e. could be the "culprit".

 

[Pertinax]

No, I can't remember seeing a photo of that head so far. And I'd rather prefer to look at fur in person than looking at it on a photo before making a judgement.
However, when it comes to fur colour, cougars are almost as variable as the names given to the species; even individuals of the same litter can have different colours. Therefore this is no reliable evidence when trying to determine whether Puma concolor concolor f.e. could be the "culprit".

Its a bit strange as in the photo of the 1938 Shirk cat's head resting on a 'cornflakes' box after it was shot, it looks like a slightly long eared Puma. Yet in the 'mounted' head photo (which I'd never seen before...) it looks very different.

Its not the colour(its a b/w photo), its the texture of the fur,- more like a wolf or lynx. Its the only picture I've seen that makes me think(like the Lee brothers who had shot x number of Pumas) that it was really something a bit different.

 

[Rhinosteve]

Sorry dude......

why dont you uk members get really vindictive and write a list of animals Australians will never see in their local zoos. and in return well write you guys a list-soon we'll have giant pandas and sumatran rhinos, so beat that
ill start with bilbies. are bilbies miantained in any zoo outside australia, or platypus? or coroboree frogs.

Im sorry to tell you that I was looking after Sumatran Rhino in the depths of deepest darkest Kent (about 60 miles form London UK) nearly 20 years ago. Google "Torgamba" and you should find my little guy quite easily! What hes like back in the wild I dnt know, but he used to be a little sweetee!
Steve

 

[Newzooboy]

Im sorry to tell you that I was looking after Sumatran Rhino in the depths of deepest darkest Kent (about 60 miles form London UK) nearly 20 years ago. Google "Torgamba" and you should find my little guy quite easily! What hes like back in the wild I dnt know, but he used to be a little sweetee!
Steve

Hi guys
I remember Torgamba and Meranti (is this right) at Port Lympne. I have some photos of Torgamba at PL so will post but may need to be patient as they need to be scanned (no diggie cameras in the early nineties!!).

Al the best
Dean

 

[Newzooboy]

Pygmy Hogs & link to other exciting species....

Hi there

Sorry if someone has already said this, but don't Jersey have a viable population of breeding pygmy hogs, some of which are to be re-introduced?

Not sure if you have all seen this website but details some interesting species which we are unlikely to see in captivity.

…free your imagination…

Enjoy.

D

 

[Pertinax]

Im sorry to tell you that I was looking after Sumatran Rhino in the depths of deepest darkest Kent (about 60 miles form London UK) nearly 20 years ago. Google "Torgamba" and you should find my little guy quite easily! What hes like back in the wild I dnt know, but he used to be a little sweetee!
Steve

I wonder if you're the keeper who let me feed him fruit....

I believe he's not in the best of health nowadays and so far hasn't been able to impregnate a female at Way Kambas. Do you know what happened to the long horns he had at Port Lympne, after he went back to Sumatra? Were they cut off due to the risk of poachers, do you think?

 

[Sun Wukong]

@Newzooboy: Guilty me said that about the pygmy hog. Jersey doesn't have a zoo population but supports with some other conservation groups an in-situ project.
And the giant peccary is like the mentioned dwarf manatee one of the species discovered by Roosmalen...

 

[patrick]

whilst i understand that the amazon still has its fair share of undiscovered animals, id'e be cautious, some of these mentioned SPECIES sound a little fanciful or a lot more like subspecies to me.

a "white-throated jaguar" and a "tree giant anteater" certainly sound a little wishful...

and the new manatee looks identical to the manatees i saw in the amazon. now i'm sure some of these may very well be valid, but if you start genetically testing everything i'm sure your'll realise that the definition of "species" is a lot more blurred than first thought. i don't propose we re-write the whole evolutionary family tree based soley on genetics, otherwise we may very well end up with so many species its a bit over the top.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Sorry patrick-but:
1. I don't think the manatees You saw where about 1.3m long as adults, where they?
2. The Giant Peccary is definetly a new species-just like several others described.
3. While I agree with You on the "fluid" state of the term species in several animals, I wouldn't be too overhasty to declare the "jaguar" or the giant anteater as "wishful thinking". Roosmalen knows what he's doing-and sooner or later (unless he's not thrown into prison again...)more will be found out. In the case of some of the animals mentioned on his HP, like the differently marked paca, I do however think that maybe subspecies or even "just" colour morph status might be the best explaination.

 

[patrick]

sunwukong:

1) no the fully grown adults were a bit bigger than that, but not much. big deal.

2) i didn't mention the peccary.

3) a white throated jaguar certainly does seem like wishful thinking to me i'm afraid. the jaguar is a very adaptable cat. prior to human extermination it ranged from the southern states of the USA to quite deep into temperate argentina in just about every habitat type. it seems unlikely to me that a cat design so adaptable would find the need or ability to evolve into another species in the heartland of its ancestors (the regular jaguars) distribution. its not impossible but its my belief that its highly unlikely.