I am quite sure no captive breeding was ever recorded, even in South America. A few of the zoos @David Matos Mendes and I have been to did hold a giant armadillo or another at some point, but sadly, none were bred.
Are These in Captivity? #2
- Thread starter The Cassowary
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CTZoologist
Member
I believe the Meigs Point Nature Center had one at one point, but I don't believe they do any longer
Yes, ZTL is incomplete for herps and fish, and I should have specified 'on display.' However, saying the statement isn’t accurate 'at all' is an exaggeration, especially given the use of 'likely' and the interpretation of 'obscure,' no? ZTL has plenty of entries for zoos in the native range of the species, and there are no past records for it. Again, it is certainly possible the species was on display somewhere otherwise documented and overlooked but I personally feel this is unlikely.
Since, unlike yourself, I haven’t been to the region, my sense of 'obscure' might be broader, and probably more relevant on a global level. It would be great if a Taman Safari, Batu Secret, or Zoo Negara kept the frogs. I personally doubt any of them or similar hold the species and I struggle to see how that is not accurate 'at all'.
We'd have to agree to disagree on how religiously to take ZTL as a global source then. It has only become global recently - it is still far from a stage where you could use it in such a way.
Just as an example: I went to ZTL, opened up the fish section, the first option on the list is for hagfish. I opened that - the Broad-gilled Hagfish Eptatretus cirrhatus is not listed at all yet I have seen it in several aquariums in Australasia, have looked after them myself at one aquarium I worked at, and I'm sure they are currently still on display at (for example) the Sydney Sealife which can't really be called an "obscure facility" seeing as how the various Sydney collections are well-known to Zoochatters. That was literally the first section of ZTL I looked at and I found an example immediately. Yet you would have said "It's not on ZTL so if they are kept, it would likely be at an obscure place."
(Edit: amusingly, after I posted the above, I then had a look at the second fish section on ZTL - lampreys - and there are no records for the Pouched Lamprey Geotria australis which have been kept in NZ at least. Two for two!)
Mossman Joe
Well-Known Member
Taman Safari and Batu Secret Zoo don't at least, though this is hardly surprising as they (Kaloula baleata) are a very common wild species locally and is often outshined by the larger, and brighter "Chubby Frog" (Kaloula pulchra), which has a lot of entries in ZTL and a few photos here.
So far I only know of one place that publicly displays them, a small cafe at the edge of Solo city in Central Java, run by yours truly, which fits as an obscure place. Seeing a lack of entries in ZTL and a lack of mentions here was what led me to ask if there are specimens housed elsewhere, preferably outside of their native range.
Sicarius
Well-Known Member
Zootierliste is only as accurate as we make it out to be. I see that someone is currently working on Sea Life Sydney and the hagfish is already online as of now. I hope it is you who is requesting these species, otherwise, it must be someone who read this post. We should all add the information we have to the website to make it as accurate as can be. That being said, no, ZTL is far from complete. But it's always better to contribute than to complain about it. Again though, you are right about it not being the holy source of all information.
Kaloula baleata was not kept in any of the Indonesian zoos that I visited in August. The species is imported into European private trade in very small numbers, remains rare, and has not yet been reproduced. Famous French reptile store La Ferme Tropicale had a piebald specimen for sale for a thousand euros.
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Fair enough. I've probably overestimated the coverage in regions outside the US (Which received entries on ZTL after Asia and Oceania) The solution then to speed up how quickly ZTL becomes a comprehensive source would be for people who have visited recently or otherwise have information to update it
Bluey
Well-Known Member
Ok so I found some random Documetary on a DVD from the U.S And in it had some zoo called "safari west" and they claimed they were going to have a Rothschild giraffe birth but I was told that no AZA keeps this Subspecies so is it in captivity
If so what's the storyline oh and the documentary was called "GROWING UP SAFARI" Animal planet
If so what's the storyline oh and the documentary was called "GROWING UP SAFARI" Animal planet
Most probably, the story is some random roadside zoo decided to call their giraffes "Rothchild" because it sounds better than "hybrid of unknown ancestry".
Bluey
Well-Known Member
Sounds about right heck this Zoo lost AZA status anyway. But for us i read on ZTL that Quite a few Aussie Zoos have Rothschild
Oh and could you explain why giraffes are hybrid? But why are people so darn sure about purity in iguanas to get cool colours makes no sense? Why can't giraffes be this way
Not sure what you mean by this question. The latest genetic evidence suggests that there are real genetic differences between giraffes in different geographical areas (leading to different forms being regarded as different species by at least some taxonomists). However, most of the captive population has not been carefully managed to keep blood lines separate. There will be captive giraffes which appear to be particular phenotypes such as Rothschild’s, but with other forms in their captive ancestry. From a conservation viewpoint, managing separate forms as different units makes sense (unless there is an over-riding need to counter inbreeding depression). How this is meant to relate to your iguana statement, I have no idea, but happy to try to explain if you can clarify what you meant.
Bluey
Well-Known Member
With the iguana thing it's just odd that so manny giraffes are Hybrids Cause I posted one as captive to inaturalist at a zoo and I said reticulated but I was corrected again saying their are no pure giraffe but iguana morphs are more tracked than giraffes if you will 
Essentially all (long term) captive giraffes are part of a hybrid population as no care was taken to keep them separate. I remain confused by your iguana comment; what hybrid iguanas are you referring to?
Bluey
Well-Known Member
None i just was trying to set an example that people breed iguana so pure to get natural colours but ive never heard of mexican subspecies and brazilan subspecies hybridisation
Yet a bigger more at risk animal *giraffe* is just going to be treated like its a mix bred farm animal that's all my point is we focus on least concern animals more than Endangered subspecies
Yet a bigger more at risk animal *giraffe* is just going to be treated like its a mix bred farm animal that's all my point is we focus on least concern animals more than Endangered subspecies
You're equating different things.
Iguana morphs are bred for commercial purposes - the Green Iguana subspecies are in a bit of disarray with lumping and splitting and varying genetic studies, but even if they were clear-cut the breeders of morphs aren't trying to breed "pure" iguanas of any particular subspecies, they are simply breeding colour morphs for money.
Giraffes in zoos are, for the large part, hybrids because in the past a giraffe was a giraffe for most zoos; there wasn't any concern for keeping subspecies separate because the wild was considered unlimited. There are pure giraffe subspecies being bred in zoos but the hybrid population isn't going anywhere because it is so large. You can't simply "get rid of" all the hybrid giraffes.
Bluey
Well-Known Member
New topic does anyone know the status of the Wilds Ohio, Chinese goral because now that zone is under renovation and will reopen In the Northern hemisphere Summer of 2025 .
And Does anyone think the Captive Goral and serow population will die out of zoos outside of Asia?
And Does anyone think the Captive Goral and serow population will die out of zoos outside of Asia?
AFAIK one of the only places with forest buffalo on display is Safari Wilderness near Tampa Fl.