Asian Elephants in Europe 2021

Elephantelephant said:
On the contrary, the Mekong is one of the most valuable bulls because it has very few offspring: Voi Nam, Max, Sanuk, Mauk, Manoa and Ka Yan.
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yeah. I realize that and agree. So I am wrong? This regulation gets confusing. I always felt the Emmen cows should keep reproducing since they desperately need females for one example. No females. No herd. Instead they just brought in Timber to allegedly breed *one* cow.

I can understand some bulls should be removed from the breeding such as Alexander. And the bulls from Emmen are genetically overrepresented except for a handful of Radza sons.
 
ZCChip said:
I always felt the Emmen cows should keep reproducing since they desperately need females for one example. No females. No herd. Instead they just brought in Timber to allegedly breed *one* cow.
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The reason Mingalar Oo and Ma Yay Yee are no longer bred is because their bloodlines are represented enough (maybe even too much). Both have also only had male calfs (nine in total). Emmen does indeed urgently need female calves, but the chance that both of these females will have male calves again is too great a risk. More sons of theirs are really not desirable for the breeding programme. The hope is now that Swhe Zin will provide a female calf.
 
MennoPebesma said:
The reason Mingalar Oo and Ma Yay Yee are no longer bred is because their bloodlines are represented enough (maybe even too much). Both have also only had male calfs (nine in total). Emmen does indeed urgently need female calves, but the chance that both of these females will have male calves again is too great a risk. More sons of theirs are really not desirable for the breeding programme. The hope is now that Swhe Zin will provide a female calf.
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yes. But it’s the sperm that determines the sex of the baby.

how many of those bulls will end up in a breeding herd? When they are in a herd they may have a capacity of producing 5-10 calves while a cow has a capacity of producing 2-3 in the same time range. I am betting only one or two out of all of those boys will end up in an UK breeding herd. While some will go to Australia or Canada or USA.

What is Swhe Zin produces another male?

I am not trying to argue. The stud book keeper has made the decision but it didn’t make sense to me statistically.
 
ZCChip said:
I am not trying to argue. The stud book keeper has made the decision but it didn’t make sense to me statistically.
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What do you not understand about it?

Mingalar Oo and Ma Ya Yee are very well represented in the population so there's no point in trying for a female calf over and over again because even if a female calf is born it won't even be that valuable due to the large number of relatives this particular family of elephants has. It's possible the sisters will be bred again in 5-10 years if things change but for now the risk of having another bull calf is too high. Europe is reaching capacity for elephants and the cost of transporting animals overseas is too high which can be avoided by simply not breeding well represented animals that don't seem to be producing offspring of the favorable gender. Putting a halt on breeding now and resuming several years down the line may be beneficial for the population as it would allow older animals to die off and open up room for more bachelor herds if needed.

I understand your concern that if breeding ends the Emmen girls may never produce a female calf to continue their matriline but they are all relatively young. So like I said earlier putting a halt on breeding now and restarting 5-10 years from now is definitely a possibility that would still allow for the birth of a female calf later on. As long as at least one cow is born in the herd, they will 100% be able to continue growing out their herd.

Also, the studbook keepers (and whoever else decides these things) of a very successful breeding program definitely know what they are doing and there's no need to doubt their decisions.
 
ZCChip said:
yes. But it’s the sperm that determines the sex of the baby.
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That is true. The variant gender chromosone is in the sperm. But who decides which spermatozyt is going to into the eggcell? Is there any interaction between the egg and the sperm before coming together? Are there more factors involved? pH?
 
Touroparc Zoo (France) : Saddly Birma, female asian elephant, died last monday 27th. She suffered from collars on the night of December 24-25 and reportedly died of digestive problems.
The Zoo has now a lonely male.

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