Twycross Zoo Bonobos

Personally i don't understand why they need to seperate Keke and Luo from Diatou. I thought males usually stay in their birth group with their mothers, and also i know they have kept parent-raised sons and mothers in the same group at Milwaukee, Columbus, Cologne and Plankendael with inbreeding, as in the wild. So why is Twycross doing this?
 
I would have to say there are a number of reasons for the split, including possible indreeding that could occur, for one Kichele is actually the product of Diatou and her father so it is known that she has in the past bred with close relatives, also there are times where the animals are in enclosed spaces that can cause friction and potential violence in the group as well as increasing the likelyhood of undesired matings. Unfortunately whilst the Bonobos are considered a "placid" ape its all relative and they have had several occurances of injuries being caused to other animals.

Redesigning the entire enclosure with larger spaces and areas for the animals to segregate themselves at times would be ideal and could make a bigger group more practical but that would cost a fortune and with improvements elsewhere in the zoo it really won't be possible for a while.
 
On a side note I have discovered this site: Ape List Pongoland - Bonobo that details a femal Bonobo named Yasa that is the offsprinf of Kakowet II and Kichele that was moved to Leipzig zoo in 2004, so it seems that Kichele also has a history of breeding successfully although I do not know if this animal was hand reared or why it was moved to Leipzig.
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Just a side note on this side note: the information on this site is wrong: Yasa is a daughter of Diatou and Kakowet II, she was mother reared by Diatou until she was moved to Leipzig in 2004.
Rumour has that Yasa is pregnant herself, but haven't heard about it recently.
 
MexPirate said:
Redesigning the entire enclosure with larger spaces and areas for the animals to segregate themselves at times would be ideal and could make a bigger group more practical but that would cost a fortune and with improvements elsewhere in the zoo it really won't be possible for a while.
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Having the two groups of Bonbos means they now have to alternate in using the outside enclosure with one group indoors half the day- or longer if the other group won't come in. On my last visit the same group was shut indoors all day. Presumably the zoo think it is okay to keep Bonobos under this regime in the longterm.
 
Pertinax said:
Presumably the zoo think it is okay to keep Bonobos under this regime in the longterm.
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Just one of a long line of issues that need sorting at Twycross, I know there isn't always a quick fix, but in the best interest of the Ape's wouldn't it be best to send one group to another collection?

Instead of keeping them in this inadequate arrangement :mad:
 
taun said:
Just one of a long line of issues that need sorting at Twycross
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I'll come out and say it- Twycross is a shambles...I was frankly disgusted at some of the husbandry issues I saw on my last visit- I have made a decision not to visit again unless things improve.:mad::mad:
 
Pertinax said:
I'll come out and say it- Twycross is a shambles...I was frankly disgusted at some of the husbandry issues I saw on my last visit- I have made a decision not to visit again unless things improve.:mad::mad:
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I think I will join your boycot! Just simple things need solving in that place, and the more complicated problems do need addressing but there is very little news on that front.

Hmmm.....need to find somewhere else with Gorrilla's and gibbons, Howletts maybe.
 
taun said:
Hmmm.....need to find somewhere else with Gorrilla's and gibbons, Howletts maybe.
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They do have a brilliant collection of Gibbons. But nowadays I hate to see the conditions their Gorillas, (some of the) chimps and other apes live under. I specifically noted that one Bonobo group was shut indoors ALL DAY in fine warm weather because the other group were using the outside..

If you want to see Gorillas, ALL the other zoos that have them in Uk keep them under far better conditions.
 
I can only go by what is posted here, not personal experience, so don't take this the wrong way. Some apes are quite happy to remain indoors, even in good weather, so it is not always detrimental to them. If they have good enrichment the bonobos won't necessarily be worse off by being inside. In fact, they can often have more enrichment because they are not under pressure to "be natural". I know from personal experience that things aren't always as they appear with apes. Happy to be filled in on other facts though of Twycross.
 
Jo said:
I can only go by what is posted here, not personal experience, so don't take this the wrong way. Some apes are quite happy to remain indoors, even in good weather, so it is not always detrimental to them. If they have good enrichment the bonobos won't necessarily be worse off by being inside. In fact, they can often have more enrichment because they are not under pressure to "be natural". I know from personal experience that things aren't always as they appear with apes. Happy to be filled in on other facts though of Twycross.
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Completely understand you're point Jo, but the point me and Pertinax in particular are making is that they dont have the choice to go outside. The house is not suited to two groups.

Alot of Apes prefer inside but they should have the choice of going outside.
 
I do understand how important the issue of choice is to apes, that is the topic of my PhD actually. It's not even as simple as them having the choice to go in and out, as I have learnt over the last few years. I agree that it is not ideal from the sounds of it, but maybe not for the same reasons as you. Maybe one group considers themselves more dominant to the other (eg may have more adults of higher rank), and the time they spend inside in what may be the preferred area may cause frustration in the other group. I am always open minded about these things, because of my research. In some cases they don't care about choice, it depends on how high the stakes are on the options.

Without knowing the behaviours of the individuals though none of us know what might be going on with them. People think the chimps in quarantine at Adelaide must be suffering because the area is so small and isolated, but the data on them shows they have never been happier, and they have less choice than they had before.
 
Jo said:
I can only go by what is posted here, not personal experience, so don't take this the wrong way. Some apes are quite happy to remain indoors, even in good weather, so it is not always detrimental to them. If they have good enrichment the bonobos won't necessarily be worse off by being inside. I know from personal experience that things aren't always as they appear with apes.
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I've written quite a lot on this forum about how gorillas in particular, prefer covered areas and shun outdoor enclosures for much of the time. However unlike gorillas, the Bonobos at Twycross obviously enjoy and make good use of their whole outdoor enclosure particularly in fine weather -in fact with this two group system its the unwillingness of one group to be shut back INSIDE which creates the problem where the 2nd group may be prevented from going OUT.

The two groups have identical inside housing so I don't think that enters the equation at all.. The best enrichment for these nervous and excitable little apes(so very different in temperament from phlegmatic gorillas or orangutans) would appear to be having as much space as possible at their disposal.
 
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taun said:
I think the closet to me is Blackpool, yet to visited but will have to now :p
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Blackpool's Gorilla exhibit is rather dated(c.1970 building) but the husbandry is good. There is a hilly island covered in vegetation which is an extension to the original enclosure and presents a very natural-looking environment. Here I think the gorillas are shut out onto it during the day(at least sometimes) There are 1.3 gorillas but the only problem there is they don't breed.

The orangutan enclosure at Blackpool is pretty poor though....:( and obviously they don't have Twycross's large selection of primates generally.
 
Thanks for the information, I will go anywhere they have gorilla's because seeing them are highlight even if the rest of the place is poor.

Otherthan Gorilla, Orangutans, Gibbons and Languars I could take it over leave Tywcross zoo. I have only ever gone there to see primarily Gibbons!
 
taun said:
Thanks for the information, I will go anywhere they have gorilla's because seeing them are highlight even if the rest of the place is poor.
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London, Bristol, Chessington, Blackpool, Paignton & Aspinall's two collections- all have good gorilla displays though they all differ a lot in housing, numbers & quality of exhibit.

I agree that a zoo without Gorillas is definately lacking something. I am amazed Chester still don't have them again after all this time- they are the country's foremost zoo in nearly every other respect. Its been a major ommission over several decades now, especially as many smaller collections both in Uk & Europe do exhibit them..
 
Pertinax said:
London, Bristol, Chessington, Blackpool, Paignton & Aspinall's two collections- all have good gorilla displays though they all differ a lot in housing, numbers & quality of exhibit.

I agree that a zoo without Gorillas is definately lacking something. I am amazed Chester still don't have them again after all this time- they are the country's foremost zoo in nearly every other respect. Its been a major ommission over several decades now, especially as many smaller collections both in Uk & Europe do exhibit them..
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I have been to Bristol and loved their outdoor enclosure for the gorillas and they were out and about for hours when I was there. Only managed 3 collections that have gorilla's, Tywcross, Bristol and Longleat.

Hopefully this situation at chester will be rectified when the Giraffes move to the East side of the Zoo. Only problem they may not get me to leave if they acquire gorillas aswell! :D
 
Bonobo Housing.

Now the (very successful) Bonobo group at Twycross seems to have permanently been split in two, they have a housing problem- only one group can use the outside enclosure at a time. This means each group has to spend long hours each day without access. I see three possible solutions to this problem;

1. Transfer one group to another zoo.

2. Build an additional outdoor area or split the existing one.

3. Move all the Gorillas into one house/group and use the vacant house for the 2nd Bonobo group.

Personally, I would favour option 1, a transfer.
 
I agree with you completely Pertinax. I think you have listed all the options, except perhaps Twycross could move out a group of chimps (to another zoo) from one of the newer houses (near the entrance/tapirs or near the bonobos) and then refurbish and extend their accommodation to make it acceptable for the bonobos.
Do you think any other UK zoos would be (a) suitable for and (b) interested in a group of bonobos?

Alan
 
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