Cryptozoology

CambsVet said:
So Ive been reading thread and find it all very interesting, and I'm not as knowledge able as the rest of you but would like to give my thoughts on the matter.

1. I don't think there is a bigfoot out there, but hey I could be wrong. I just find it hard to think something that big could hide in the USA. Maybe if it was a jungle species from Bhutan etc then possibly but highly unlikely.

2. I think that the Amur and the Caspian were the same subspecies but on the way to becoming distinct groups due to breeding isolation. The mitochondrial work done in 2009 by Oxford uni et al showed there was only 1 nucleotide difference between the two. So I would say that is far to simillar to be classed as distinct. ( Although it was only mitochondrial not nuclear DNA gathered) The paper can be viewed on this link. I dont know if its viewable to all?

PLOS ONE: Mitochondrial Phylogeography Illuminates the Origin of the Extinct Caspian Tiger and Its Relationship to the Amur Tiger

3. I've recently been doing some reading on Pumas and although Im no expert I think probably there is only the one North American species. I dont think there has been enough breeding isolation and pressure for distinct subspecies to arise as of yet. I Florida example was only cut off for 100-200 years from the Texas population and really and significant change in genome in a slow breeding animal such as a puma will probably need alot more than that. (Unless you founding population is very small) A paper that you may have seen is found here. Again I dont know if access is avalible to everyone as Im logged on to my uni network.

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/3/186.full.pdf

4. Dinos have gone the way of the Dodo ;) But cool relics remain like the Hoatzin!
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1. Sasquatch creatures have been reported all over the world, not just North America. It is possible to hide in some parts of North America but not to many and probably not for a creature such as Bigfoot. Lots of Bigfoot sightings have occured in jungles worldwide and these definetly have a much greater chance of hiding a new primate species. Anyone ever hear of the Bili Ape, Myanmar Snub-Nosed Monkey, or the Lesula. Of course, these animals (except for mabye the Bili Ape) are much smaller then the Sasquatch.
2. We can all agree that the Caspian Tiger was seperating from the Amur Tiger. Weither it did or not... Up to you and future science to confirm.
3. If you'd like to discuss your views on Cougar subspecies, go to my thread (sorry for the name);
http://www.zoochat.com/2/tigers-lions-leopards-oh-my-big-295148/
4. The Dodo's extinction was an unfair and horrible event. The Spanish are the ones that wiped them out. What was taken as stupidity was actually a lack of fear as a result of no natural predators. The Dodo was a unique and special species that should not have gone Extinct along with all the specialized species of Mauritius.
 
Pertinax said:
Look in the 'Thylacine Museum' website- the section on 'Benjamin- the Last Thylacine at Hobart Zoo'.

In 2010 frame by frame analysis of the 1933 David Fleay film revealed the scrotal sac to be evident in one of the sitting/yawning shots of the Thylacine, proving 'he' was male.
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Thank you. I did not know of this discovery. I have the link to a collection of every Thylacine film evermade. Do you want me to post it?
 
ThylacineAlive said:
4. The Dodo's extinction was an unfair and horrible event. The Spanish are the ones that wiped them out. What was taken as stupidity was actually a lack of fear as a result of no natural predators. The Dodo was a unique and special species that should not have gone Extinct along with all the specialized species of Mauritius.
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It were not the Spanish that were responsible for the extinction of the Dodo. The Dodo got extinct during the Dutch presence on Mauritius. You could maybe blame a bit on the Portuguese (releasing some invasive species on the island), but the main cause were my own fellow countrymen.

If you wanna advocate for the more obscure theories I would recommend you to get your facts straight on the easy ones.
 
DDcorvus said:
It were not the Spanish that were responsible for the extinction of the Dodo. The Dodo got extinct during the Dutch presence on Mauritius. You could maybe blame a bit on the Portuguese (releasing some invasive species on the island), but the main cause were my own fellow countrymen.

If you wanna advocate for the more obscure theories I would recommend you to get your facts straight on the easy ones.
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I had read that it was the Spanish but after a little more reading the main fault rests on the Portugese because they were the ones that introduced compeating species and predators on the island. Other Europeans, including the Dutch, can be blamed as they ate the Dodo, but the Portugese set first foot on the island and, thus the blame falls on them.
Everything else I posted holds true.
 
You put things on the Dodo a bit too simple. Yes they introduced as several species among them pigs, but the Dutch had a fotress on Mauritius in the 17th century, which cleared land, the Dutch hunted Dodo actively and they of course introduced more species. Extinctions are often quite complicated and even as the extinction of the Dodo is one that is one of the first that got documented, there is a lot we still don't know and there has been proper research done lately. I would recommend the work done by Julian Hume to get yourself updated.
 
ThylacineAlive, I like your enthusiasm, but I have the feeling you are not familiar with judging sources on their quality. I noticed you re passionate about cats. Dive in them, read literature. Try to read some scientific papers to get a feel there. Cryptozooligal source are a lot more challenging to judge as there are a lot of cons out there. And they can make their "evidence" look very scientific while it is actually a lot of bull %^&$.

Most publication on cats is more reliable and would help you to get a feel of how research is done and how to judge texts. It will help you in a later phase to also check the more obscure fields of our passion.
 
DDcorvus said:
ThylacineAlive, I like your enthusiasm, but I have the feeling you are not familiar with judging sources on their quality. I noticed you re passionate about cats. Dive in them, read literature. Try to read some scientific papers to get a feel there. Cryptozooligal source are a lot more challenging to judge as there are a lot of cons out there. And they can make their "evidence" look very scientific while it is actually a lot of bull %^&$.

Most publication on cats is more reliable and would help you to get a feel of how research is done and how to judge texts. It will help you in a later phase to also check the more obscure fields of our passion.
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I appreciate the advice. I know the general story on the Dodo but am not an expert (obviously). I've always been fascinated by Cryptozoology and a bit more knowledgeable on other topics. The story of the Thylacine I'm more familiar with, for example. I'm not saying I know everything on it, though. If you read above, you'll find that I just learned that Benjamin (the last known Thylacine) was proven to be a male and not a female as previously though (you'd think there wouldn't be so much speculation on this).
 
ThylacineAlive said:
2. We can all agree that the Caspian Tiger was seperating from the Amur Tiger. Weither it did or not... Up to you and future science to confirm.
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Actually we can't agree on that at all. At most, the studies show that the two populations separated by hundreds of miles were interchanging DNA up until at least 200 years ago. The separation between the two populations only came about due to human interference.
 
I missed a day of discussions, and I can see a lot of non-believers are jumping on ThylacineAlive's case.

Yes, you can pull up his socks if he has some facts wrong - no dramas. But I wouldn't bash the guy/girl for wanting to believe. Who here is religious? Do you folks honestly believe everything that your religion preaches? Do you believe in the existence of god/s? A lot of your own beliefs are grounded (to use the term loosely) in faith. Like ThylacineAlive, I too have faith and believe in many of our myths and legends stemming from actual sightings.

For example, although Chlidonias has dismissed the comparison of pythons in the Everglades to big cats in Australia, it doesn't mean that if we apply some logic to the argument, that we can see it to be plausible.

Let's say a few years ago a geezer dumped a single, male python in the swamp. Said python grew quite large, and one day Skeeter comes along and has his dog eaten by a "20 foot snake". Skeeter's friends would tell him to lay off the moonshine, but he would maintain his story, and the legend would become locally popular. Because it was just a male snake, when it died, that was the end of that. Who is to say that just one big cat was not released into Australia, and there were sightings of the one cat 60 years ago, but the cat has long since died, yet the legend lives on so every large moggy is assumed to be a big cat?

PS* Megalania living into historic times would have been phenomenal! Again, Australia is a huge land mass, so I see no reason to disbelieve the notion that megafauna that supposedly went extinct, actually persisted into historic times. Same goes for Neanderthal-type ancient humans in North America who would have been attributed extra hair and inches to make the story more sensational by early settlers.
 
nanoboy said:
I missed a day of discussions, and I can see a lot of non-believers are jumping on ThylacineAlive's case.

Yes, you can pull up his socks if he has some facts wrong - no dramas. But I wouldn't bash the guy/girl for wanting to believe. Who here is religious? Do you folks honestly believe everything that your religion preaches? Do you believe in the existence of god/s? A lot of your own beliefs are grounded (to use the term loosely) in faith. Like ThylacineAlive, I too have faith and believe in many of our myths and legends stemming from actual sightings.
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Guy. Thank you nanoboy:). I am sure you already know this (and I don't want to make the mistake of misinterpreting someone again) but there are Burmese Pythons in Florida and Texas. It's a known fact. If the same goes for Black Panthers in Australia... Well, you're the one who lives there:)

And, yes, I posted some false info. by mistake but remember I'm only 15 so I don't know everything and I'm prone to make mistakes.

nanoboy said:
PS* Megalania living into historic times would have been phenomenal! Again, Australia is a huge land mass, so I see no reason to disbelieve the notion that megafauna that supposedly went extinct, actually persisted into historic times. Same goes for Neanderthal-type ancient humans in North America who would have been attributed extra hair and inches to make the story more sensational by early settlers.
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This is an interesting theory that I've never considered. Whose to say some Megalania or Bigfoot creature didn't survive into modern times. That would explain why they are in aboriginal and native american folklore and cabe paintings (most native american tribes tended to paint only what they saw commonly). Mabye one or two happened to survive into even more modern times and been photographs and filmed before disappearing into mystery and legend.

Please don't chew me up for this post!!!!:D
 
ThylacineAlive said:
This is an interesting theory that I've never considered. Whose to say some Megalania or Bigfoot creature didn't survive into modern times. That would explain why they are in aboriginal and native american folklore and cabe paintings (most native american tribes tended to paint only what they saw commonly). Mabye one or two happened to survive into even more modern times and been photographs and filmed before disappearing into mystery and legend.

Please don't chew me up for this post!!!!:D
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The only problem with that Bigfoot hypothesis is that fossil hominids have never been found in the New World.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Guy. Thank you nanoboy:). I am sure you already know this (and I don't want to make the mistake of misinterpreting someone again) but there are Burmese Pythons in Florida and Texas. It's a known fact. If the same goes for Black Panthers in Australia... Well, you're the one who lives there:)

And, yes, I posted some false info. by mistake but remember I'm only 15 so I don't know everything and I'm prone to make mistakes.



This is an interesting theory that I've never considered. Whose to say some Megalania or Bigfoot creature didn't survive into modern times. That would explain why they are in aboriginal and native american folklore and cabe paintings (most native american tribes tended to paint only what they saw commonly). Mabye one or two happened to survive into even more modern times and been photographs and filmed before disappearing into mystery and legend.

Please don't chew me up for this post!!!!:D
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I will chew you up for not reading posts and following threads carefully though.

Yes, as pointed out earlier, I am well aware that pythons are in the Everglades. Indeed, I believe that Nat Geo has a TV series about them. I was using them as an example of a large introduced species.

And if no Neanderthals were found in the Americas yet, I still see no reason why the legend of Bigfoot did not arise because people saw forest people wearing, say, bear skins/heads. I doubt that Bigfoot in America is a new species, but it could just as easily have been a crazy, tall, hairy man.
 
nanoboy said:
I will chew you up for not reading posts and following threads carefully though.
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By all means, do.

nanoboy said:
Yes, as pointed out earlier, I am well aware that pythons are in the Everglades. Indeed, I believe that Nat Geo has a TV series about them. I was using them as an example of a large introduced species.
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I know you are aware of this. I think either the History or Animal Planet channel has one, too.

nanoboy said:
And if no Neanderthals were found in the Americas yet, I still see no reason why the legend of Bigfoot did not arise because people saw forest people wearing, say, bear skins/heads. I doubt that Bigfoot in America is a new species, but it could just as easily have been a crazy, tall, hairy man.
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I agree this is reasonable.
 
jbnbsn99 said:
Ah, I remember that age when optimism overshadowed my realism.
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The only Cryptid that has my optimism overshadowing my realism is the Thylacine and I'd give you reasons why but, as we've said, my optimism is overshadowing my realism. Although, getting older doesn't neccesarily mean that your optimism doesn't overshadow your realism on some things. And there are hundreds (mabye thousands) of adults in Australia and Tasmania that believe in the continued exsistence of Thylacines.

Do you believe in the continued exsistence of the Kouprey? Hmm?
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Do you believe in the continued exsistence of the Kouprey? Hmm?
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Debatable. The last confirmed sighting was in July of 1982. Some traces has occurred since then. The last time anyone actually had a field expedition to search for the animal was in 1993, and that was done by a bunch of stoned journalists. The only current searches are via camera traps set up to look for tigers. The Kouprey is currently the zoological equivalent of Schrodinger's Cat.
 
jbnbsn99 said:
Debatable. The last confirmed sighting was in July of 1982. Some traces has occurred since then. The last time anyone actually had a field expedition to search for the animal was in 1993, and that was done by a bunch of stoned journalists. The only current searches are via camera traps set up to look for tigers. The Kouprey is currently the zoological equivalent of Schrodinger's Cat.
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It's that way for me with the Thylacine. The only difference is an IUCN status.
 
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