European elephants #3

Status
Not open for further replies.
dragon(ele)nerd said:
does anyone know when the calves are due? about when in 2011?
Click to expand...

I´m not 100% sure, but I would say both are due in April 2011.

Both cows are pregnant for at least 4 months now (zoo´s received progesteron tests covering 16 weeks following last oestrus), and they were introduced to Calvin around 17./18. June for the first time. That leaves only a small time "window" of maybe 14 days, when they´ve could get pregnant.
 
sounds neat, I'll definately mark in that date. Quite a few elephant calves I know are born in April come to think of it. Perhaps cause in the Northern hemisphere the middle of the year is warmer weather when the elephants are probably most comfortable.
 
!!!!!!!!

according to asianelephant.net Sammy at Parc Paridiso is dead can any confirm this? and most importantly how?
 
Hopefully his halfbother Thisiam will be given a chance to breed in the not so distant future...

And he already has a lovely set of tusks on him like his father!
 
Upali said:
Hopefully his halfbother Thisiam will be given a chance to breed in the not so distant future...
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about that, as it's been mentioned before (and not only here)

now, first, I'm not an "elephant man" and don't keep any records of them.
So if I'm wrong somewhere, feel free to correct me.


I'm sorry too for what happened to sammy. I know how it choqued his keepers. But everyone seems to emphasise on the how important the bloodline is and that there are only 3 (1 bul, 2 females?) alive to continue it.

between the lines, I understand that this means that more animals of this line have died than those 3 that survived.

couldn't this mean that it's a "weak" bloodline and maybe better not to continue it?

Take sammy too: he's 17-18 years old and goes from beautiful animal (no denying that) to sick and then dead in only 2 days! (I also understand he had a serious health problem a few years ago).

I've kept and bred a variety of animals: from shrimps, over fish and reptiles to small mammals. and in my experience there is such a thing as "bad genes". animals that seem right at first sight (even upon veterinary check) but still eat poorly, are often sick, have a lot of dead young, ...

I think this is something that isn't taken in to account enough when it comes to captive animals. Again, what happened to sammy, is a sad story and I understand most of the reactions. But given his "roots", maybe it's not so unexpected at all.

(that is of course unless someone here provides me with a sh**load of info on just how few offspring Siam has had, how those very few unlucky ones died and how healthy and strong the survivors seem)
 
Given the sudden decline and death of Sammy , I wonder if this is another case of the herpes virus , though most of the deaths seem to have been much younger animals .
 
the "weak" Siam bloodline may have to do with the facilities he had been kept in resulting in poor health and poor semen. He was at first a cricus elephant and then moved to Paris zoo which to be honest wasn't the best elephant exhibit there is.

Sahib Fridolin his so didn't appear to have any prominent tusks he was euthanised because of aggressive I think. Quite a few have been euthanised. One Salem died from Self inflicted injuries ( need to confirm)
Another died from Heart problems. His son Ben at Rotterdam zoo died from Anethesia involvement. ( this seems to be fatal in many cases with bull elephants)
So there are various reasons of Siam's offspring's deaths.

Of the remaining descendents. Kim Is at a zoo in france with a female and seems very unlikely to successfully breed with her. Thisiam is in Plock zoo by himself and Nina has had her first calf.
 
Sammy. But from the maternal prospective only Kim shares the mitochondrial genes. Thisiam and Nina don't do.

An other point not heard on a forum is the fact that and Sammy and Ben were removed at a young age from their mother. They were no elephants in a near adult phase. So can that have inflicted the immune system?

Sammy was in good health when he went from Rotterdam to Paradisio. But he has been ill for some time in Amersfoort.
Has someone more details?
 
Sammy's mother died when he was only 5 months old. He arrived at Amersfoort Zoo when he was 13 months old. He grew up and was a healthy animal, no signs of any problem. A few years ago (about 3) he was sick in Amersfoort. The results of the blood tests gave no exact indication of what was wrong and they gave him antibiotics. In a few days he was recovered and it took a few weeks to gain weight again. He hasn't been sick since then. The first weeks in Rotterdam he severly lost weight. He didn't eat a lot, stayed outside for a few weeks. This had all to do with the transport, stress. He missed his home, his "family", his foster mother of which he was very fond of...He was a very sensitive animal. When they moved him to Paradisio this summer, it appeared he had gained 1200 kgs during his stay in Rotterdam. He had no health problems in Rotterdam. It's unbelievable that he died at such a young age. He was a beautiful animal and was my favourite. I knew him almost all his life and in a few years he should come back home to Amersfoort. I was looking forward to that. Now only his skull and teeth are coming back and get a special place in the new enclosure.
 
Last edited:
Thought i'd put it here:

Asian elephant Indra delivered her second calf last night (10 november) at Amersfoort Zoo, the Netherlands. She delivered it in the presence of her "aunt" MiMi, her mother War War was not near, her first calf was killed by both herself and War War right after birth.

Sex is yet unknown, but the calf looks healthy and is doing well. Father of this calf is Alexander, since two years in Amersfoort.
 
jay said:
What's the ring around the cows left front foot?
Click to expand...

During her first birth, Indra and her mother War War both panicked and trampled the newborn. I think the ring was put in place to probably be able to hold her down during this birth, or at least be able to get the calf away from her if she panicked again.

I've never seen a ring around an Amersfoort elephant before, so i bet it was just a precaution for this birth. Not too surprising it's there, if you ask me, and probably removed soon...

The good news though; It's a girl and her name is "Kina" which is supposed to mean "little one" because for a calf elephant, she ain't that big... All is well, sofar :)
 
I thought she was small but as I haven't seen many baby elephants, (none in the flesh) I wasn't sure. All the best for her.
 
Let's also hope she has a little brother or sister as a playmate soon! This is baby number 14 for Alexander!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top