Exotic reptiles seized in yet another drug bust

The article mentions that the chameleons are being treated at Taronga but "might be put down". I'm assuming that they probably will be euthanised.

Oh dear. The article says "The National Parks and Wildlife Service says the reptiles may need to be euthanised to protect local wildlife."

There are chameleons at many other zoos in Australia, so what am I missing here? Can't they be quarantined and 'disinfected' or something and given to zoos?
 
this popped up on the news, so this seemed like a good place to post it:
Cobra on the loose in suburbs - Yahoo! New Zealand News
27 July 2012

A king cobra is on the loose in the Gold Coast suburbs after escaping from a house in Helensvale.

Veteran snake catcher Tony Harrison was warned by a late-night phone call to watch out for the venomous snake, The Gold Coast Bulletin reported.

"I was called by an anonymous bloke the other month who said 'keep an eye out for a kingy in Helensvale', I asked if he meant a king eastern brown and he said 'no a king cobra'.

Mr Harrison said he recently found a Burmese python in Robina.


Illegal reptile trade is increasing on the Gold Coast with authorities catching one reptile a month, it was reported.

Anyone found with an illegal animal carries a fine of $88,000.

"But my daughter who works in a pet shop said I would be amazed at how many people come in looking for food for an exotic snake," Mr Harrison said.
 
Tony Harrison said:
how many people come in looking for food for an exotic snake

Food for an exotic snake is exactly the same as food for a native snake. There is no end to the number of idiots this planet can accomodate.

:p

Hix
 
There is no end to the number of idiots this planet can accomodate.

:p

Hix

A true statement - unfortunately.

However, some years ago our zoo had a visit from one of these idiots who proudly showed me photos of his King Cobra - on the Gold Coast!!!!! Apparently some of his mates owned some as well. He didn't have tatts and studs, nor did he arrive on a Harley, but he also was not born in Australia!

I'm told that Burms and Retics are also very common and you can choose your colour when ordering.

Geelong seems to be the Boa capital of Australia. When I first started doing the Geelong A & P Show I would be oregularly offered Boas at $1500 each. The price is now down to $50 each, how many would you like?

Corn Snakes are offered by the dozen. In fact, some young Aussies think that Corn Snakes are natives - they are that commonly kept.
 
When I did my elapid husbandry course one of the instructors told us a work colleague of his bought a python as a pet and when he saw pictures of it he immediately ID it as a ball python. So the owner put "ball python" down on the returns and on the books and has never been questioned about it, doesn't say too much about the people responsible for permits.

You don't have to strain too hard talking to reptile keepers before you find someone who has an exotic story, if there is someone willing to buy it there is someone willing to sell it. By the way I keep native herps and fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your views) I don't have any personal exotic stories :)
 
Red tailed boas, chameleons and corns seem reasonably common down this way. never encountered exotics personally outside work but people are surprisingly open about what they can get.
 
Is the logical next step to accept that there are a large number of exotic herps in the country and legalise the keeping of some species through licensing? I accept that this isn't a fool-proof system and has flaws, but maybe it would tighten up the illegal imports.
It would be a real shame to see another Everglades situation if exotics were suddenly dumped creating feral populations. That is to add to the already existing problem.
 
What's the thrill in owning an exotic, illegal species? Maybe I just answered my question: it is not native and it is not legal. Sad.
 
Is the logical next step to accept that there are a large number of exotic herps in the country and legalise the keeping of some species through licensing? I accept that this isn't a fool-proof system and has flaws, but maybe it would tighten up the illegal imports.
It would be a real shame to see another Everglades situation if exotics were suddenly dumped creating feral populations. That is to add to the already existing problem.

like the american alligator that was found in a camping ground on the NSW South coast a few years back.
 
The questions surrounding private keeping of native reptile permits system is in itself ridiculous. So I have given a general "keepers point of view" on some of Australia's permit systems dealing with reptiles, so firstly you can have a general understanding of current permits.

WA and Tas have the most ridiculously regulated systems, WA chief of environment (don't remember the official name off my head) has gone on record to say that "reptiles are the currency of criminals" there is no import into WA and even some endemic species widely available elsewhere are prohibited to private keepers (Rough-Scaled Python), how can WA keepers hope to get any progress with this mentality in charge. Tasmania has no import either and obtaining a license permits any keeper to collect a certain amount of native reptiles, so any Tasmanians who want a snake as a pet is limited to basically tiger snakes and copperheads which most do collect without any prior proof of ability to safely keep some of the worlds most venomous snakes!

In my opinion SA has the most effective and fair permit system, some species don't require a permit (eg blue tongues and short neck turtles) the list of basic species only requires you to get a permit for 2 or more basic species animals. Then to obtain specialist species you need references to show your competency keeping them. The venomous snake endorsement operates on a 3 level system, you keep a red belly or similar for a year then can apply to upgrade to all but 4 species for a year and on level 3 you can finally upgrade to Eastern Browns, Coastal Tais, Inland Tais and Rough scaled snakes.

NSW also has different levels of species able to keep, but not as well structured I believe.

QLD has some good things and some absolutely stupid things. The stupid thing: anyone can go from keeping a gecko then doing a venomous course to obtain references and then straight away buy a Coastal Taipan, easily the most difficult elapid to work with in Australia. QLD also has international species permit, YES QLD are legally allowed to have exotics! (so are other states but there isn't the locality distinction) QLD can legally have international Green Tree Python localities such as Biak, Aru and Sorong. QLD also prohibits crocs, like some other states. QLD permit system is regulated by politicians not in the literal sense but because they have no idea about what they are regulating, try to make life as hard for people legally keeping whilst ignoring illegal activity and finally can't justify their laws and can't answer simple questions. :)

In the early 90s there was an amnesty on exotics and those keeping them were allowed to legally obtain a once off permit for their exotics for the life of the animal provided they were not bred.

Also the recent addition of JAG carpets to the Australian hobby is very interesting. Jaguar carpets were a purely overseas morph, until only recently when one of Australia's biggest commercial breeders "obtained" some jags. Now JAGS are readily available given the new name RPM (reduced pattern morph) to try and separate them from their history as illegally imported JAGS. There is also talk that granite and zebra carpet morphs have already started down a similar path with some people saying they will be available in a matter of years.

Tetrapod: The issue of legalizing exotic reptiles is debated very regularly in the hobby, I can't go into all the details (I write too much already haha) essentially the consensus is that it will never happen. As you can probably grasp from my brief overview of Australian permits we already have enough problems with native permits that won't be fixed anytime soon, so throwing exotics into the mix isn't really an option. My concern is not so much reptiles escaping (although it is a concern) but my worry is the risk of pathogen and disease spread with captive collections and wild animals, there have been a couple of "scares" with OPMV and now Sunshine Virus.

Nanoboy: People want the new or different thing, even in natives the introduction of a new species or a new colour mutation brings in the BIG dollars! Gavin Bedford has recently collected Oenpelli Pythons to bring into the hobby, he took preordered pairs for $15K to help fund the mission, this price will rise to maybe $20-25K per hatchling pair once the breeding program is at the stage of public release. Albino carpets were about $15K each when they were first released same with Albino Olives, JAGS were several thousand on release as were Rough-Scaled Pythons. It isn't so much that exotics are anything overly appealing it is purely the novelty and "specialness" of them that makes them as appealing as they are.

Sorry for the essay people, believe it or not I condensed everything, as such there is probably some information that could be missing the full story but I did my best :)

Cheers
Daniel
 
If you were into reptiles,could it not be worth a look around the outside of Taronga for a few interesting species?

Cheers Khakibob
 
That was a really good post, crocodile_dan. I don't know how accurate your info is, so I will leave that up to the other folks on this thread to discuss.

What I would like to ask about though, is your reference to Gavin Bedford "collecting" oenpelli pythons. You mean collecting from the wild? If so, is this legal?
 
Gavin Bedford is the only person (in the world) who has the permits from the Govt. and the permission from the native people to enter the Oenpelli region and collect this python species. From a recent article I read, he has so far managed to find only one.

As for the accuracy of the info in Corcodile Dan's post - from what I know it appears to be pretty spot-on.

tetrapod said:
Is the logical next step to accept that there are a large number of exotic herps in the country and legalise the keeping of some species through licensing? I accept that this isn't a fool-proof system and has flaws, but maybe it would tighten up the illegal imports.

My view (and the view of lots of government-types) is that as soon as you allow any kind of legal trade, you create more avenues for illegal trade.

Some years ago there was a complete moratorium on international trade in elephant ivory. There was still illegal smuggling, it could not be stamped out entirely. The moratorium was temporarily lifted for a few African countries only, to export stockpiles of ivory they had confiscated from poachers. The sale of this ivory generated funds that went into anti-poaching etc. In a very short space of time, as well as the legally traded ivory, there was a notable increase in the volume of illegal ivory appearing in the markets in South East Asia.

:p

Hix
 
Dan, do you know what the laws are in Victoria. From what I know they must be similar to South Australia's because people I know keep blue-tongue lizards and long-neck turtles without any license. Are they doing this illegally or are they not breaking the rules?
 
crocodile_dan said:
QLD also has international species permit, YES QLD are legally allowed to have exotics! (so are other states but there isn't the locality distinction) QLD can legally have international Green Tree Python localities such as Biak, Aru and Sorong.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Queenslanders can keep exotic species (just as a random example, common iguanas)? Or they can keep species that are native to Australia such as green tree pythons but in which the particular form or subspecies comes from outside Australia? And what does "(so are other states but there isn't the locality distinction)" mean?

crocodile_dan said:
Also the recent addition of JAG carpets to the Australian hobby is very interesting. Jaguar carpets were a purely overseas morph, until only recently when one of Australia's biggest commercial breeders "obtained" some jags. Now JAGS are readily available given the new name RPM (reduced pattern morph) to try and separate them from their history as illegally imported JAGS. There is also talk that granite and zebra carpet morphs have already started down a similar path with some people saying they will be available in a matter of years.
similar thing in NZ. Yellow and red morph bearded dragons are now commonplace even though they didn't appear in the overseas pet market until well after legal imports into NZ were stopped. Same with leopard geckoes, new morphs are starting to appear in the trade in NZ. According to the breeders here, they are all locally produced. Yeah right!!
 
Thanks Nanoboy, I tried to give a very general overview so it is not as in depth as it could be but for the purposes of this topic I think it is enough. Gavin Bedford is the Reptile One ambassador and opened Crocodylus Cove in Darwin and I believe is co-owner with John Weigel of Snake Ranch a commercial reptile breeding facility linked to the Australian Reptile Park, he has legally brought several species into the captive hobby including Rough-Scaled Pythons (John Weigel was the primary person to bring in RSP), Kimberly Rock Monitors, Albino Olive Pythons and now Oenpelli Pythons, there may be more species. Gavin had to jump through a lot of hoops and fight long and hard to get the permit.

Hix: One of the conditions of Gavin Bedford getting approved the permit was that a second permit was approved to the traditional owners, so there are two active permits to collect but there has been no reports of the other permit holders progressing with any collection. Gavin has indeed caught a female some time ago, there hasn't been an update since. Another interesting note is that P Krauss kept and bred a pair which he had in his possession for 16 years. P.S. I read your review of Dundee's Wildlife Park and you were very kind, I worked there and wouldn't have been anywhere near as nice :)

PAT it is legal to keep some native animals in Victoria without a permit provided they were legally obtained and used privately, this includes blotched and eastern blue tongues and long neck turtles. I understand Vic is very close to the SA system apart from it is far easier to upgrade to a specialist permit (pay a fee and away you go).

Cheers
Daniel
 
Dan, do you know what the laws are in Victoria. From what I know they must be similar to South Australia's because people I know keep blue-tongue lizards and long-neck turtles without any license. Are they doing this illegally or are they not breaking the rules?
go to this page: Private Wildlife Licences

scroll down to where it says "Do I Need A Licence" and open the pdf entitled "Taxa which may be held privately without a Private Wildlife Licence" (it includes birds, mammals, amphibians and reptiles).

Blotched and eastern blue-tongues and snake-necked turtles are allowed.
 
Sorry Childonias what I meant is QLD permits people to legally keep the international localities of Green Tree Python, Sorong, Biak and Aru are GTP localities in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia. Other states don't make the distinction between native and international GTP localities, so they are simply a green tree python. QLD have the same international permit for Eclectus Parrots but I'm not to good on my bird knowledge. Apart from GTP's there are no other exotic species permitted, so no iguanas or boas legally.

Yeah it's strange how something pops up in Australia or Overseas and then a year or two later it pops up in the other location, simple as anything :) If someone could be bothered and did genetic tests on the JAGS they would find Irian Jaya/New Guinea Carpet Python genetics in the JAGS and Irian Jaya's are not legally kept in Australia.
 
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