Global Captive Orca Population
- Thread starter Jonathan Petersson
- Start date
BlobfishBoy
Well-Known Member
I believe they stated in a video from about 2 years ago that Morgan was not on birth control. I don’t know if that has changed at all but if it hasn’t I’d think it’s only a matter of time until she’s pregnant again.
It would be interesting to see what genetic diversity is like at Chimelong given that many of their whales were captured together it may not be great, we'll likely never know though. I wonder what their long term plans are given that they have just moved Nukka to the spaceship from the breeding base, leaving only Jade and a possible calf there. They might end up having them all at the spaceship which I would hope happens sooner rather than later as Jade is currently alone, maybe with a calf. Although they might become victims of their own success if they keep producing calves at the rate they have been, like Sea World in the mid 2000s and there isn't really anywhere for their whales to go, these new parks that are supposedly going to be displaying orca don't seem to be going anywhere and there are at least two whales still to go on display at a third facility.
I wonder if Loro Parques expansion plans for the orca tanks have been shelved, they had intended to expand them once Ula had reached a few years old, this was before they lost Skyla and Kohana though so it's not likely they will want to put loads of money in, especially as they do not have a sustainable population.
I wonder if Loro Parques expansion plans for the orca tanks have been shelved, they had intended to expand them once Ula had reached a few years old, this was before they lost Skyla and Kohana though so it's not likely they will want to put loads of money in, especially as they do not have a sustainable population.
BlobfishBoy
Well-Known Member
I'd assume those plans are essentially ice boxed unless they ever get their breeding back on track.
The expansion plans have been shelved following the deaths of the three girls - Morgan was off contraception, but it's entirely possible she has been placed back on again.
In any case, Japan need males, Loro Parque need females and the Chinese population could also do with more genetics (preferably females) and offloading a few of their surplus male calves too.
I can easily see Chimelong offloading a male or two across to Japan in the near future. Considering their numbers atm, I don't see them looking to get anything in return though.
I guess we can't rule out Loro Parque receiving Wikie and Keijo too, if absolutely necessary.
Weren't Shanghai supposed to be offloading Chip and Shawn 2 to another Chinese facility? I can't remember where but it would make sense for either or even both of them to have gone or go to Nagoya or Kamogawa. Although I guess it depends if it is a sale or transfer of ownership, it gets complicated working out who owns what over there. I can see Dora's calf going the same way as well. I doubt Chimelong would be interested in either of them due to potentially being related to their animals and their own capacity.
Have to agree with the above though, I don't think any of the Japanese facilities are equipped to hold these whales.
To be honest though, I'm not keen on the idea of importing any whales from China into Japan. Can you imagine these G.I.A.N.T Russian whales in tiny Japanese tanks.
Have to agree with the above though, I don't think any of the Japanese facilities are equipped to hold these whales.
A MermaidNamedMiranda
Member
It was hoped that Nami would mate with Bingo after he and Stella settled in. She died almost a year before they arrived.
Sacchi
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Zhengzhou Haichang Ocean Park, which is Shanghai Haichang's sister park and part of the Haichang group. The park is open but they are still constructing the orca arena. Nearly done I think.
If anything, Chimelong has a surplus of males at the moment. They have eight, compared to only five females, so could surely afford to sell one or wto at the very least to any of the Japanese parks soon. Especially with the breeding success they're having, they will have to sell whales to other parks sooner rather than later.
A MermaidNamedMiranda
Member
It was my understanding that the expansion plans were put on hold because they could not hire labourers during Covid-19. Then, after they only had 4 orca left, they did not have the need to expand.
BlobfishBoy
Well-Known Member
Some people have learned of the preliminary results of Inouk's necropsy: an ingested piece of metal that lead to peritonitis and enteritis contributed to his death. The actual report isn't officially released so future findings may include more information.
Edit: To me this goes to show how care standards or at least the facilities at Marineland have deteriorated. There should've never been any metal pieces in the water in the first place; this just seems very preventable.
Edit: To me this goes to show how care standards or at least the facilities at Marineland have deteriorated. There should've never been any metal pieces in the water in the first place; this just seems very preventable.
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PantheraLeoMelanochaita
Well-Known Member
Here’s a recent update from the Whale Sanctuary Project, sourced from their Facebook page.
Now that three years of environmental assessments at the sanctuary site have been completed, we are fast-tracking work at the site in order to be ready to receive Wikie and Keijo at their earliest opportunity.
As we have recently learned, there will be no such opportunity for Wikie's brother Inouk, who died in their tank at Marineland Antibes last week. And we should note that bringing the surviving two orcas from France to the sanctuary is, of course, contingent on an agreement among Marineland Antibes, the French government, and the Whale Sanctuary Project.
Our accelerated plan for Wikie and Keijo includes the design and fabrication of a large bay pen (larger than the space they have at Marineland Antibes) that can accommodate them while the perimeter net that surrounds the full 100 acres of sanctuary space is being completed. Our contractors on the west coast are pressing ahead with detailed plans and engineering designs for the bay pen.
Once the sanctuary is complete, the bay pen will serve as an initial space for other new arrivals, where they can become accustomed to the tides and flows of the ocean and where we can have them under observation before they are released into the full area of the sanctuary.
Also, and in accordance with the results of our environmental assessments that were completed last year, site engineers are working to determine where best to locate the land-based infrastructure, including potable water, septic systems, and power, along with precise locations for the building foundations, parking areas, foot paths, etc. We will also be setting up temporary land-based facilities to accommodate staff until full construction is complete.
In a public statement in early February, we proposed to Marineland that rather than sending Wikie, Inouk and Keijo to an aquarium in Japan, they collaborate with the Whale Sanctuary Project and with the French government to retire the whales to the sanctuary in Nova Scotia. Such a collaboration would begin with a team of independent veterinarians being invited to conduct full health and behaviour assessments.
This would lead to medical treatments as needed and then to training programs for the whales to become accustomed to the many routines that will be involved in transport and acclimating to a new environment.
There is also at least one court case pending in France that will likely not be heard until late in the year. This means that Wikie and Keijo will likely not be able to move before the end of this year.
And since they should not be moved during the winter months, our plan, assuming that Marineland Antibes is open to a collaborative effort between their team and ours, will be to bring them to the sanctuary in the spring of 2025.
Meanwhile, the French government has been in discussions with us for the last three months and has expressed clear interest in our proposal to work with Marineland Antibes to retire Wikie and Keiio to the sanctuary.
As we have recently learned, there will be no such opportunity for Wikie's brother Inouk, who died in their tank at Marineland Antibes last week. And we should note that bringing the surviving two orcas from France to the sanctuary is, of course, contingent on an agreement among Marineland Antibes, the French government, and the Whale Sanctuary Project.
Our accelerated plan for Wikie and Keijo includes the design and fabrication of a large bay pen (larger than the space they have at Marineland Antibes) that can accommodate them while the perimeter net that surrounds the full 100 acres of sanctuary space is being completed. Our contractors on the west coast are pressing ahead with detailed plans and engineering designs for the bay pen.
Once the sanctuary is complete, the bay pen will serve as an initial space for other new arrivals, where they can become accustomed to the tides and flows of the ocean and where we can have them under observation before they are released into the full area of the sanctuary.
Also, and in accordance with the results of our environmental assessments that were completed last year, site engineers are working to determine where best to locate the land-based infrastructure, including potable water, septic systems, and power, along with precise locations for the building foundations, parking areas, foot paths, etc. We will also be setting up temporary land-based facilities to accommodate staff until full construction is complete.
In a public statement in early February, we proposed to Marineland that rather than sending Wikie, Inouk and Keijo to an aquarium in Japan, they collaborate with the Whale Sanctuary Project and with the French government to retire the whales to the sanctuary in Nova Scotia. Such a collaboration would begin with a team of independent veterinarians being invited to conduct full health and behaviour assessments.
This would lead to medical treatments as needed and then to training programs for the whales to become accustomed to the many routines that will be involved in transport and acclimating to a new environment.
There is also at least one court case pending in France that will likely not be heard until late in the year. This means that Wikie and Keijo will likely not be able to move before the end of this year.
And since they should not be moved during the winter months, our plan, assuming that Marineland Antibes is open to a collaborative effort between their team and ours, will be to bring them to the sanctuary in the spring of 2025.
Meanwhile, the French government has been in discussions with us for the last three months and has expressed clear interest in our proposal to work with Marineland Antibes to retire Wikie and Keiio to the sanctuary.
BlobfishBoy
Well-Known Member
I’d rather these whales get out ASAP. To be honest, who knows if they can afford to wait (at least) a full year for them to get out of the deteriorating tanks at Marineland when they’ve already lost two whales in the span of a few months. If getting them to another marine park gets them out sooner then I think heavy consideration should be given to that (though it seems like from what I’m reading that the government may lean towards the sanctuary plans). If they do pursue those plans, then improvements need to be done very soon to ensure no more whales are lost before spring of next year.
Zoo adventures
Well-Known Member
I have never seen an orca but this is gigantic. I hope I see one in the wild one day. I do not want to support shows.
To be honest though, I'm not keen on the idea of importing any whales from China into Japan. Can you imagine these G.I.A.N.T Russian whales in tiny Japanese tanks.
A MermaidNamedMiranda
Member
I was over at Facebook yesterday, shaking my head. These sanctuary plans have been talked about since 2015. They "were going to" put Kiska there, then Corky, then Lolita, then the 4 French orcas and now only Wikie and Keijo. I have absolutely no trust in these people. They are all talk, no action. Ideally, SeaWorld Orlando could take Wikie and Keijo. I do not see them making it to Japan, and with what has already happened between Nagoya and Kobe, and will be happening in a few days at Kamogawa.......While Stella sits alone in Kobe.
Waiting another year at Antibes is a death sentence for Wikie and Keijo.
TheOceanicHippo
Member
100% Agree with you, if these people knew anything about orcas they would know these are Icelandic whales, not Canadian whales. Moving them to a sanctuary is just as big of a death sentence as keeping them at Marineland. Ideally SeaWorld would be the only facility which I would think would provide adequate care for Wikie and Keijo. Since Loro Parque has already had so many controversies such as providing their orcas with improper diets, and in general just being a sort of sketchy facility. It’s time SeaWorld steps up, to try to get these orcas to one of their parks.
PantheraLeoMelanochaita
Well-Known Member
The Whale Sanctuary Project was founded by Lori Marino, one of the world’s foremost experts on orcas. If you take a look at their team on their website, you’ll see that lots of other cetacean experts work for them, including former trainers. Regardless of whether or not you agree with Lori Marino’s opinions on captivity, it’s just flat-out incorrect to say the WSP knows nothing about orcas. Neither Wikie or Keijo have ever felt Icelandic ocean water or acquired Icelandic microbes—they’ve spent their entire life in tanks. I highly doubt that their ecotype not being from Canada will make being placed in Canadian waters a “death sentence”. For example, Dolphin Quest Bermuda has currently has a dolphin who was wild-born in the Gulf of Mexico in their sea pens, as does Dolphin Quest Hawaii. Even if you disagree with the WSP’s anti-captivity messaging, I don’t think it’s right to act as if they’re doomed to fail. I, personally, am optimistic about the better life Wikie and Keijo could have there compared to being plopped into a tank with pod of orcas they’ve never met. Considering that SeaWorld cancelled their Blue World Project, which would’ve massively improved their orcas’ enclosures, after finding out that they’d be banned from breeding more “baby Shamus” to fill the tanks only to voluntarily end their orca breeding program anyway a short time later (and proceed to spend the money that would’ve gone to Blue World on roller coasters rather than on improving animal enclosures), I highly doubt they care about the welfare of orcas halfway around the world enough to rescue them from a failing facility. Individual trainers might care; the company itself does not. I do agree that Loro Parque is incredibly sketchy and that they shouldn’t be trusted with orcas going forward.
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TheOceanicHippo
Member
I’m personally not a fan of the SeaWorld Company, however I’m not going to make the claim that they don’t care about the welfare of animals. Must we not forget about SeaWorlds leading mission of animal rehabilitation and conservation. I’m not going to bash Lori Marino, as I do believe that she has done her research and is knowledgeable on captive animals in many circumstances. However I do believe that she is an animal right activist more than anything else. She has a PHD, has studied captive animals, but one thing that she has not had the roles of being a zookeeper or trainer which I think lends itself to a different perspective. She doesn’t seem to acknowledge all of the things that the trainers do to keep the animals mind stimulated. The website only features one side of the issue, and has little to no information on places like SeaWorlds conservation mission. Not to mention a lot of the information they get on SeaWorlds whales is John Hargrove. Which many of his statements have been proven to be false from many trainers with far more experience than him. Those 12-15 million dollars towards the sanctuary, I believe would be much of a better use to go towards killer whale research and conservation.
PantheraLeoMelanochaita
Well-Known Member
I never said they don't care about the welfare of some animals; I said they don't care about orca welfare specifically. And as I mentioned, individual rescuers and scientists that work for SW may care about animal welfare, but as a for-profit capitalist corporation, I don't think their rehab and rescue efforts, while admirable, prove that they are dedicated to conservation considering how much plastic junk they sell in their parks, and how they push a message that more consumerism will fix the environmental problems consumerism has caused—"Just by visiting SeaWorld, you're already saving the ocean!"
"However I do believe that she is an animal right activist more than anything else." Personally, I don't think supporting animal rights or being an 'activist' automatically makes someone biased. Good scientists are capable of not allowing their beliefs to unduly influence the hard data they collect.
Source for this? I've never seen the WSP personally cite anything specifically from Hargrove, nor is he on their team. And while I personally don't support John Hargrove because he has said some racist things, I don't think his claims about captivity can be completely dismissed considering how much experience he has. But I digress; I'm getting off-topic.