Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Master Plan 2022

@hyena142, I know you dont mean cubs soon. But I think it we loose Echo we are done and the odds of seeing hyena cubs within the next decade or more probably vanishes with him. Parc Safari has 2 girls who were imported with Echo. I would guess since they were willing to part with him, they must be his sisters. Those are the only other spotted hyenas in Canada I know of. Jungle Cat World does or did have I think a stripped hyena.

I thought the temple was usually closed for the winter as the jaguars were the only ones who could be out most days.
 
I also remember the Temple being closed during winter months in past years. And I believe Jungle Cat World still does have Stripped Hyena.
 
Maybe I'm wrong about that then but I swear I used to visit it in the winter sometimes to see the jaguars. They probably switched over to closing it during the off-season not too long ago and I just forgot. I'm old and my memory's going lol. Thanks for the info about the other Canadian hyenas
 
Oh another concern of mine is that they will take the savanna pavilion away from me. It's gonna be super expensive. They havent build a new pavilion in ages. I think Australasia was the last of them but could be wrong and its the Americas. It's gonna be probably the most expensive endeavor of the whole plan for an individual item. No clue how they are gonna fund a project that big when they are still struggling to raise the last 2 million of the orang exhibit. I want a new pavilion so badly, especially since its for my beloved savanna animals. I can absolutely see it being cut and me left sulking.
 
I haven't put much stake in the Savanna Pavilion, so if we lose that, it won't be a giant loss in my mind. The reason for that is because I never really had anything to conceptualize. It was just discussed with no layout presented. So it's almost like it doesn't yet exist until I can see something put down on paper.
 
@cypher, difference is I did see a plan for it. Attending that webinar it was one of the things they give a little glimpse of. Not design plans but a rough layout. Plus I have thought it would be an incredibly smart move forever.
 
I personally don't like the plan of phasing out River hippo, Indian rhino and Olive baboon, b/c they are charismatic animals that lots of visitors would like to spend time on watching them. But abandoning megafaunas seems become popular in recent days, so this might be an excuse for phasing out hippo and rhino. Baboon is one of the few species you can see in the Savanna during winter times, I don't get the reason why the Zoo wants to abandon baboons.
Switch the Australasia pavilion to the Canadian pavilion?? What species do you guys think can fulfill this pavilion then? Due to the high Latitude, Canada doesn't have that diverse amphibian and reptiles species. I feel that pavilion gonna be pretty boring, what about making it to North American pavilion? So that you can have much more diverse choices from the Sonora-Mojave desert and Florida Everglades wetlands fauna.
I do agree with @Esox 's idea that Trt Zoo should have more cold-tolerant species in outdoor exhibits, they really need to put more effort into Canadian Domain and Eurasia. These two sections have the fewest visitors to come, the Domain can blame the big hillside it locates, while Eurasia is just not attractive enough to visitors.
Esox said:
Golden Snub-nosed Monkeys
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Golden snub-nosed monkeys are one of few cold-tolerant non-human primates, but forget about them, China doesn't want to export them. Japanese macaque could be a reasonable choice, Calgary and St-Felicien having them currently.
Here are my suggestions:
Eurasia:
Japanese macaque: people like to watch a group of monkeys, watch them climbing, playing, and interacting with each other. Japanese macaques can be on display for entire year and there are some other Canadian zoos currently having them, so it shouldn't be hard to obtain them.
Dholes: it is quite embarrassing that Toronto zoo only has one canid species currently, the Arctic wolf. Visitors may recognize them as wolves, but that means Dholes can attract people's attention b/c many zoo visitors like to see wolves.
Amur leopard: big cat is typical eye attractors, Snow leopard is shy and often doesn't show up, Amur leopards may give visitors more opportunities to see them. But I am not talking about replacing the Snow leopard, since Trt Zoo gonna say goodbye to Clouded leopard, it make sense to add another Asiatic big cat.
Takin: since Chamois, Barbary sheep and Mouflons are in list of phase out, we need some new hoofed mammals, Takin is a good choice.
Golden pheasant: beautiful birds can also attract visitors' attention, and the Eurasia needs bird that hardy in cold. The Golden pheasant can satisfy both requirements.

Canadian Domain:
Snowy owl: the reason why Crystal is phased out is b/c the light and flash of Terra Lumina make her stressed, then we can place the Snowy owl in other section, like Canadian Domain.
American black bear: As @TZFan mentions, it is almost impossible for Trt Zoo to obtain Asiatic black bear, then we may seek for two rescued orphans of American black bears, b/c bears are always charismatic to visitors. Even though the overall number of visitors in the Canadian domain is few, we still can see many visitors assemble to watch Grizzly bears.
North American porcupine: they are quite adorable, and not hard to obtain. Actually one keeper of Domain told me she really wants to have porcupine, and she recommended me to send request to Zoo via email b/c the Zoo is more likely to accept the suggestion from visitors rather than keepers.
I personally also like Great grey owl and Fisher, but they may be hard to happen.

Tundra Trek:
Currently two exhibits in TT are empty, how should we fulfill them? Some people talk about Wolverines and Walrus, almost all the Wolverines in captivity are Eurasian, that means we have to import from Europe, it is already hard to transfer not-small mammal over the ocean, don't mention the Pandemic makes the transfer much more difficult. Walrus is very expensive to be kept, b/c they consume great amounts of shells. The Zoo is facing financial shortage, so Walrus is not a wise plan for the zoo in current situation. I like Arctic fox, but Toronto Zoo has already showed us several times that they are incapable of keeping this small cutie at all.
For Arctic fox exhibit, my suggestion is retrofiting it to an aviary with pond, and have King eider and Harlequin ducks. For Snowy owl's exhibit, my suggestion would be Willow ptarmigan, we don't have many choice for this, Gyrfalcon sounds very cool, but hard to happen.
Having Musk ox mixed with Caribous sound great, that Caribou's exhibit should be wide enough.
Additionally, I am curious that how costly for Toronto Zoo to keep Koalas? Since Koalas are fed on Eucalyptus leaves only. I know Toronto Zoo used to keep Koalas three times, but none of them stayed in the zoo for even one year.
 
@StellarChaser I like your animal choice for Eurasia. I would also like to see Japanese Macaque and Dhole back on display, but I figured because they were already phased out once the chances of a housing them again are low. Golden Pheasant is a good idea too. In fact I think including a variety of pheasants would be ideal because the Eurasian area has many very stunning, cold hardy species. Lady Amherst Pheasant, Koklass Pheasant, Reeve's Pheasant, as well as Monals and some species of Tragopan would be appropriate. Being gamebirds they are very popular with bird breeders, including in private collections so I can't imagine sourcing these species would be a major feat. The zoo previously had Goldens, Himalayan Monal, and Temminck's Tragopan in the past (all in Indo-malaya). Why not house them in that Chinese-style memorial garden area in Eurasia? Would be the perfect addition to bring actual people into it and I think it would go well with the overall sense of Feng shui the area seeks to create. Having brightly coloured, essentially tropical-looking temperate birds displayed all year round would be yet another opportunity to increase the appeal of off-season visitation.
 
hyena142 said:
Maybe I'm wrong about that then but I swear I used to visit it in the winter sometimes to see the jaguars. They probably switched over to closing it during the off-season not too long ago and I just forgot. I'm old and my memory's going lol. Thanks for the info about the other Canadian hyenas
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Did you see American flamingos come outside in winter?
 
Interesting find @hyena142. I personally haven't seen the Jaguars in the winter, but it looks like it was open at least once in the past during the winter months, depending on the weather. I normally remember seeing the gate closed just after the America's Pavilion and this was before they had the path from Tundra to the Temple.
 
Since we seem to have stalled on concerns about the new master plan why don't we move on to another topic. Is there something from the old Master Plan you are hoping they keep? If so what and why?

Personally I remain hopeful about the outdoor gorilla exhibit. There were really no details about what it would be like other than they were to get an upgrade and possibly improved viewing across a moat. I don't want the outdoor exhibit the old team envisioned because it would have been underwhelming and disappointing. But I do want a new outdoor gorilla exhibit from the new team. They will go for something that might even be world class and cutting edge. I'd like them to get a more natural looking exhibit and for the horrible mesh to be a thing of the past. Those are my biggest gripes about the current exhibit other than obviously its smaller size. Some new open viewing spots would just be so amazing.

I desperately want the zoo to plan the Canadian Wilderness out right so they can move the Canadian critters out of the Americas. This hope isnt for the Wildernesses sake. I hated their plan for that. I just want the Americas freed up to become the tropical Americas. I think the South American representation at the zoo is pathetic. The Americas would give the zoo a decent chance to increase representation. Most would be smaller species but I am cool with that. Besides I don't really believe the zoo would ever have the budget to build a brand new pavilion worthy of the South American critters. I'm still not sold on the fact they will be able to build a mega barn to serve as a savanna pavilion. The conversion makes the most sense and probably would be way more cost effective. Part of the problem though would be you would still need to build something for the North American critters. I have a solution for that though and its the Discovery Zone. You could house some of the smaller mammals out there. There are exhibits you could use for the birds as well. The biggest expense would be building a shed for the reptiles. Knock down the old goat exhibit and build a simple reptile house and you could stick the reptiles and amphibians and bugs in there. I would assume the beavers would get an exhibit in the Wilderness while the otters go to the entrance as planned. The only species I think you would definitely have to phase out at that point is the gators and I am ok with that. Convert the pavilion and consider bringing in Orinoco crocs instead and no one will know the difference but us nerds and we would appreciate the change. Sorry slid into planning.

While I know Rhino Ridge is toast because we are phasing out the Indian rhinos I still want the Asian small clawed otters the last plan made me hope for. Never liked the idea of them in with the rhinos but I could see putting them in with the gibbons or orangs. Both have pretty big moats which would offer the otters plenty of space to swim but also tons of land space to romp around would be available too. The exhibits would need relatively minor modification for them. Biggest expense might be converting some holding space. They can live with babirusa and gibbons or orangs just fine so it would be a great solution to make me happy.

This one wasnt elaborated on much but I do hope they build a breeding facility capable of housing hoofstock. I think a good breeding center would really help the zoo with the issue of getting hoofstock across the border. Maybe when we import a male, we ask for 3. Get a bachelor pair we can rotate through or share genetics with other zoos in Canada and help reduce the genetic bottleneck we constantly flight in Canada. Even if its just for breeding Canadian species for release into the wild I would be ok with that. Anything to help promote teh conservation message.

I wish we could keep the hippo exhibit plans. It would have been incredible to have a nice big new hippo exhibit and an impressive barn with indoor viewing capable of holding a breeding herd of hippos, not just a pair. I know we cant keep this part of the old plan but I wish we could.
 
We're officially in the month of the Master Plan guys! fingers crossed of course

For me the only thing I absolutely need them to keep from the old Master Plan is Canadian Wilderness for obvious reasons. The drive thru is fun and all but I know what that space wants to be and I am just done with the stupid Domain and the stupid hill. Bring everything upstairs, maybe add some new species like wolverines or just NA porcupines and I'll be happy.

I also really hope the Tropical Americas dream is still alive but I'm much less confident on that one. Americas does need a bit of help considering the pavilion doesn't really have a headliner animal (and with the otters likely moving to the entrance and the beavers possibly moving to Canadian Wilderness it's about to have even less wow factor), so I think shifting the whole area over to a South America theme would be really great. Giant anteaters have long been a TZ dream for me, and I'd love to see kinkajous, tapirs, toco toucans, and howler monkeys. The more I think about it the more I want it to happen so I really hope it's still in the cards, regardless of how far off it is.

The gorilla outdoor redo needs to happen, it's gonna look really old-fashioned compared to the orangs outdoor exhibit (which is the first time in the zoo's history that the orangs have it better than the gorillas in some way) so I'd very much like it to happen. We're approaching a very weird time in the future of the gorillas with the troop likely seeing massive changes, so it'd be nice to give them an updated and bigger outdoor exhibit to go with this new era.
 
I'm on the same page in wanting to keep the outdoor Gorilla alive and well. Improving on the idea would be even better. The current outdoor exhibit is too cagey for Gorillas in today's world. Upgrading the exhibit to be world class to match what we're all hoping for the Orangutan exhibit will be a definite crowd pleaser.

I was a fan of increasing the Lion exhibit to take over the current Eland exhibit. I like the idea of giving the Lions more space, but I feel the plan works best with a larger or second Pride. Having only 3 Lions in that space would be a disappointment to see so much empty space.

And of course I want the Canadian Wilderness concept to stay and improved on. I'm not a fan of drive through only sections. And that's because on the drive through you get no time to sit and just watch the animals. You zoom by and hope to see them up close. The space the drive through takes up is rip for multiple nice sized exhibits that can be well developed and impress visitors for years to come.
 
@hyena142, I dont want anything to do with the old Canadian Wilderness plans other than move it up to the abandoned part of Eurasia. I hated how they were going to basically convert Eurasia to Canada. I do think there is the space between Tundra Trek and the old dhole exhibit to do amazing things. If the P Horse get a good new exhibit closer to the other Eurasia animals be it the mouflon exhibit, maybe opening into the camel exhibit, or the empty stretch of land behind the Amur tigers or reclaiming the failed Schofield gardens, I am totally cool with converting the drive through into a bison exhibit which I still think can be a drive thru. As long as people are stupid and get out of the zoomo there is no reason you cannot drive through a bison exhibit. I would be down for a redevelopment that doesnt go any further into Eurasia. A ton of work could be done in that space. As long as they dont kinda mix Eurasia and Canada, they leave Australasia alone, and no coyotes I will be fine. Of course porcs and wolverines are most welcome.

I agree I can wait a little for the Americas conversion. As they pull out animals they could slowly replace them. Replacing the otters and beavers could happen in the next few years with the otters moving out and beaver Ward being rather old. I have long believed that those exhibits could be converted to a giant otter exhibit if a retractable roof was installed. With the renos they did this summer keeping something aquatic in there makes the most sense. If they put in a glass roof though even if its not retractable they could use those exhibits for countless possibilities. Could be an extremely exciting project. Unfortunately I think it will go the other way and the tropical guys will be phased out in favor of North American species and no new pavilion will come to highlight such cool and amazing creatures.

A new outdoor gorilla exhibit would be a nice match to the new gorilla era we are about to embark on whatever that may look like.

@cypher, I had forgotten about expanding the lion habitat. And while Im all for expanding for them I dont want to touch the eland space. The eland space should be part of a mixed savanna. Wow we all forgot the mixed savanna! I think there are other possibilities for the lions. I would like to see the ostriches moved to the mixed savanna or the giraffes. Dont care which. The wildebeest could go live with the useless watusi if the current vet still thinks they are a medical risk to the other hoofstock. That would provide tons of space for expansion of the lion exhibit and barn. I do agree if you do expand you need a larger breeding pride. Hopefully a 2.2 plus young situation of tawnies. I think you could do a lot there too if you built a new big barn for the lions, hyena and possibly add say wild dog or moved the cheetahs. The empty field north of the current hyena exhibit, the field across the road where they wanted to put Ravens Roost and the wildebeest and ostrich exhibits provide tons of room to build a huge predator complex where rotating species would be possible making the whole thing much more dynamic and interesting for both the guests and animals. Never gonna happen but it would be an amazing project for the savanna that could be worked on in phases with the barn being the thing that links it all.

I also agree that if the drive thru stays with bison in it that something needs to be done to provide views from a path. A viewing platform could work or an elevated boardwalk could work. You could also reroute the zoomo path through the exhibit and restore the walking path. There are options to address free viewing opportunities. I still think the drive thru adds a lot to the zoomo experience but I dont think your only option to see a P Horse or yak right now should be a paid experience. You already pay enough to get into the zoo and not everyone can afford nearly another $10 a person for that.
 
@cypher I completely forgot about the lion expansion. I like the idea if only because a new barn may be a backdoor into hyena cubs (unless of course they follow through on becoming a non-breeding facility...sigh). I'm really hoping our next pride is a big one, both Rowdy and Fintan never got to keep any of their kids around because they only had sons. Seriously what are the odds of that, 7/7 of our previous lion cubs were all boys. I do remember liking the idea of retheming the Savanna to a predator/prey type thing, honestly I'll be fine if the Savanna goes more or less untouched in the Master Plan but there's some fun ideas they can do with it. Wild dogs? Please? I'd even settle for geladas, just anything but Hamadryas baboons.

@TZFan I think the way to go is take the entire drive-thru area while still keeping it separate from Eurasia. My plan for the Wilderness has the entrance at the left of the snow leopards (where the macaques are) and the exit spits you out at Dr. S's garden. You get a lot of land that way and don't need to encroach on any Eurasia area. The only issue with this is that it kinda limits Eurasia's area for expansion but I think there's still enough room for a few new exhibits in there.

Americas is one of those spots I definitely have my eye on this time around, the way I see it they're fourth in line for a big redo behind the outdoor orangs, the entrance and Canadian Wilderness. With the exception of Tundra (and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even have any idea on how to help Tundra) after all that is cleared away it's the area of the zoo most in need of help, especially if it'll have lost the otters and beavers by then. Love the idea of giant otters in the outdoor exhibit, I think roofing off that exhibit could bring some very exciting possibilities.
 
@hyena142, gosh you are right about the lions. What are the odds of 7 for 7 boys? And I doubt any of us know what the previous prides last litters had. I do hope to one day learn but for now giant mystery. I think it would be fun to have a pair of brothers with 2-3 sisters. A nice big pride with lots of possibilities for cubs. Even better if they were all imports.

I think we want to use very similar space for the Wilderness. Im just willing to move closer to Tundra Trek and fill some wasted space with big exhibits. I can see using the wooded hill just east of the health center as a space to put in a mountain goat and big horn complex. The hill while not super tall lends itself to a mountain exhibit. Could also use if for cougars and grizzlies though I have a sneaking suspicion that will be what happens to the macaque exhibits. The wisent exhibit could go moose rather easily. Not sure what to do with the dhole exhibit maybe bring back lynx or use it for a fox. There is still spare space there you could do a beaver pond, maybe some whooping cranes (which I refuse to have in Tundra Trek), do a mixed exhibit for coons, skunks and porcs (if not in the Discovery Zone) and still probably space for pens for hawks, eagles or owls. There is definitely lots of potential if they would just use the space available wisely.

The Americas is definitely an area I have my eye on. I don't think there is much chance it will stay a combined space. I think they will have to decide which continent it needs to represent. I would like to think it will rank 4th on big project priorities as you outlined. However its such a neglected pavilion I can absolutely see it being one of the last priorities we all know will never be touched in a 15 year master plan. I think we will get the entrance, the Canadian Wilderness and maybe the savanna pavilion as the 3 big projects with the gorillas, amurs and jags as 3 medium sized projects and then a smattering of smaller projects and lots of small quality of life improvements. We know the zoo moves like molasses. They will plan more most definitely I think 6 big and medium projects are likely all they can get through in 15 years. In the last 10 years we have had the penguin exhibit, the modification for giraffes and watusi (hard to call those even medium projects but I will), Eurasia (if you can call it a big reno), and the health center. I think I hit them all. Might have forgot something.
 
I would just like to say that the lion and hyena area could use an expansion since the back area has so much space especially behind the hyena barn loads of possibilities, as well @TZFan the lions are such social animals it would be nice to see some of those different groupings, such as maybe a 2 brothers and 4 sisters maybe even since the barn currently for the lions can hold nine almost full grown lions, but the siblings might have to share space but that shouldn't be a problem though.

As well area that I think we can have our eyes on will be the Americas, Africa, and Indo-Malaya. Americas since well the facts stated above, Africa since we have had so many subtle hints of expansions, amalgamations and separations. Then, Indo-Malaya has facts that will need to be addressed. The Aging Holly the gibbon, orangutans: Kembali and Jingaa are due for transfers soon hopefully, Bucky and olive, The Indian Rhino situations, the Sumatran tiger house calls for an expansion in the animals plan.
 
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TZFan said:
While I know Rhino Ridge is toast because we are phasing out the Indian rhinos I still want the Asian small clawed otters the last plan made me hope for. Never liked the idea of them in with the rhinos but I could see putting them in with the gibbons or orangs. Both have pretty big moats which would offer the otters plenty of space to swim but also tons of land space to romp around would be available too. The exhibits would need relatively minor modification for them. Biggest expense might be converting some holding space. They can live with babirusa and gibbons or orangs just fine so it would be a great solution to make me happy.
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Something I don't quite get about all this is - what was the point of renovating the Indian rhinoceros' indoor quarters if they were going to be phased out anyway? I assume this is a later decision that honestly comes across as a slap-in-the-face for those who genuinely worked hard for the rhinos' welfare. I don't get it.
 
StoppableSan said:
Something I don't quite get about all this is - what was the point of renovating the Indian rhinoceros' indoor quarters if they were going to be phased out anyway? I assume this is a later decision that honestly comes across as a slap-in-the-face for those who genuinely worked hard for the rhinos' welfare. I don't get it.
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Agreed the indoors would still look stellar with a Malayan tapir and babirusa mix, and maybe Asian otters. The indoor mural is a nice hue to the grey barn, but I do wish they would introduce more birds in the house again. I would even dare try to mix in any of the famous hoof stock species like a bachelorette herd of gaur maybe.
 
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