ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014

I agree wholeheartedly - to have that huge building closed to the public is pretty poor. London hasn't got that much covered space these days. And if the aim is to give the tapirs more privacy, why isn't use being made of the old elephant hospital den?:confused:
 
As far as I know, the Casson is indeed closed from time to time for the tapirs to get some peace and quiet. The camel's indoor space has been adapted especially for them. Tennisfan's description of the Casson's contents is pretty accurate from last time I popped in there (though it does change). But what intrigues me, Ian R, is what and where is the "old elephant hospital den"???
 
volvox said:
But what intrigues me, Ian R, is what and where is the "old elephant hospital den"???
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There are two indoor off-exhibit "hospital" dens in the Casson building.

One, originally for elephants, was between and behind the old Asiatic elephant indoor den and the old African elephant indoor den.

Similarly the other, originally for rhinoceros, was between and behind the old white rhino indoor den and the old black rhino indoor den.
 
Ah yes, got it (have found old plan of the building). Well! you live and learn, I never knew they were there.
 
Together with the keepers' mess room (behind the old rhino den closest to the Events Lawn) and the old elephant bath (where the elderly Lowland Anoa lives/lived) that makes a total of sixteen bays in the house, of which by my reckoning no more than five are currently in use for non-events animals.

Add on the vast interior, which may have possibly seemed architecturally correct when the building housed pachyderms, and the two entrances (with a bit of tweaking one would surely suffice) it can be seen that the interior of the Casson Pavilion (can we please come up with a better name?) is a huge undeveloped space. It really does merit urgent attention.
 
tennisfan said:
When it first closed temporarily I heard it was something to do with Health and Safety ... then I believe they had a sign up saying some building/maintenance was going on ... I suspect someone simply reused an existing sign as I think it said at the time closed in the morning comeback in the afternoon but in reality it wass closed all day.

I wonder whether the closure is simply to give the Tapirs a quiet undisturbed area to retreat into.
If i recall it had indoor areas for the bearded pigs , the tapirs (2 sections - one previously occupied by the anoa) - the red ruffle lemur , a burrowing owl , an armadillo , some meerkats and 3 other species that I forget
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I've only been to London twice in the last year & on both occasions the building has been shut. Last time i was in there, there was a kinkajou too.
I think the area should be used for small mammals & birds from asia, i don't think more reptiles are needed, unless it's a large crocodilian!
My preferred option though would be to move the pigs elsewhere in the zoo & use the area for sun bear (or sumatran orang).
 
Pertinax said:
The male Gorilla 'Jomie'( Djoum x Lomie, owned by ZSL) killed and partially ate a Colobus Monkey in the old 'tower' ex Chimpanzee age at Port Lympne. He was later sent to London Zoo but died two years later from Hepatitis B. I can only suspect he might have got it from eating the Colobus monkey, as no other cases have been reported of other Gorillas there so affected.

Most places that have kept Monkeys with Gorillas seem to suffer accidents to one or more Monkeys eventually, and then give it up as you outlined. Bristol's with De Brazza's seemed to work initially but then just stopped.

One other I know of is GaiaPark where they have (or had) Black Mangabeys with Gorillas.
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Yes, its strange that certain zoos in Europe appear to have thriving, breeding groups of monkeys living with their gorillas (although almost never guenons), but that this has not been achieved in the UK. While I think the enrichment potential is huge, I wasn't impressed with the colobus tunnel at London as it provided just a single exit point from the gorilla habitat. It is a shame however that none of the monkeys get at least timeshare access to the island, providing olfactory enrichment if nothing else.

woody505 said:
Is there anything too see in the old elephant house? found it strange for such a big building not to be converted into holding something more suitable
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It is a listed building, which limits how much ZSL can alter it; furthermore, the concrete floors and low levels of light would present huge challenges to creating or maintaining any kind of immersive or planted themed exhibit given its occupants. The Clore Rainforest Lookout had to have an overhaul only a few years after opening in part due to the difficulties of maintaining a lush artificial rainforest exhibit in what was formerly a concrete basement of the small mammal pavilion and, today, is again looking pretty sparse.

Credit to ZSL that they obviously listen to their keeping staff at times, and the Casson appears to be as prone to closure as the previous tapir house, which is no bad thing if it means the stress levels of the tapirs is being managed. If the zoo intends to continue working with Malayan tapirs (as would appear to be the case given the investment in the new enclosure), it would be pointless them creating anything in the remainder of the Casson Pavilion interior as they would have to shut the building every time they have a tapir calf. Its unlikely that the structure could be altered sufficiently to divide the tapir stalls from the rest of the building in any meaningful way that could give them space from the public (especially auditory).

For this reason, I think it would have been wiser for the zoo to have linked the Casson enclosure to a separate, purpose-built house for the tapirs nearby, rather than attempting to create a space for the two camels as they have done. The Casson building must be very expensive to heat in winter.

I think the Casson Pavilion is a relic, but an architecturally beautiful one, and would be more suited as a museum or film/display theatre. Weirdly, statues of animals prove popular in zoos and a few life-sized models of some of the Casson's most famous occupants, especially if the public were able to walk among them in the dens, would be a powerful statement on how far the zoo has moved on.
 
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Communityzoo said:
I think the Casson Pavilion is a relic, but an architecturally beautiful one, and would be more suited as a museum or film/display theatre. Weirdly, statues of animals prove popular in zoos and a few life-sized models of some of the Casson's most famous occupants, especially if the public were able to walk among them in the dens, would be a powerful statement on how far the zoo has moved on.
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I like this idea and agree it could be used to show just how zoos have changed throughout the decades.
 
Mr T said:
I like this idea and agree it could be used to show just how zoos have changed throughout the decades.
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H'mm. London has got to get away from this attitude of being permanently defensive about its history, and imagining that its existing buildings can't be adapted for other animal exhibit purposes.

The Casson Pavilion is the central feature in the Main Garden. To have it closed, except for very good reasons indeed, to the public is (and I apologise for causing offence) frankly ridiculous. As has been pointed out earlier, a den designed to hold an adult elephant (and "Dicksie", the larger African cow in 1965, was a very big animal indeed) is more than capable of being used for one or two tapirs that need a bit of extra privacy.

I miscounted earlier; the two pairs of elephant and rhino dens, the respective hospital dens, the mess room and the elephant bath make up twelve bays, not sixteen. Allowing for any newly restored building having enough keepers to make the mess room a necessity, but also amending the entrance on the Events Lawn side to be able to act as both exit and entrance, so that the entrance lobby on the other side of the building can be utilised, that gives an awful lot of potential animal exhibit space.

The units that were installed for temporary purposes when the Clore and the Bird House were being redeveloped have already shown that they can hold birds and smaller mammals. The Events animals could be in the empty Petcare Centre - that would enable (say) Prevost's Squirrel, Belanger's Treeshrew and a chevrotain species to be held. Might the other group of small animal dens be set on a reverse lighting cycle? That would make it possible to hold one or more species of loris, or cloud rats; maybe even pangolins, one day.

I would love to have Orangs back, and Sun Bears. But I'm not sure how easily the rhino paddocks could be adapted to hold them. Maybe a group of Banteng (if the rhino paddock was used as one exhibit space) or two from Lowland Anoa, Visayan Warty Pig and Prince Alfred's Deer (if used as two) might be easier.

One other thought: Arctictis binturong was first named by Stamford Raffles, ZSL's founder. The Binturong, so well described by Gerald Durrell as looking like a badly made hearth rug, is one of the most wonderfully outlandish mammals to be imagined - a carnivore that is largely vegetarian, where the female is bigger than the male, and possessing a prehensile tail! Space for a pair of these strange animals to slumber away most of the day, to occasionally wake up and amaze visitors, ought surely to be found. And Raffles' bust, so long sitting in the Society's Offices, would surely be pleased to be brought out to gaze down on the interaction of animals and visitors.
 
IanRRobinson said:
and "Dicksie", the larger African cow in 1965, was a very big animal indeed.

I would love to have Orangs back, and Sun Bears. But I'm not sure how easily the rhino paddocks could be adapted to hold them.
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Nice to see the correct spelling used.;)

My view of the Casson building is that since the Elephants and Rhinos left, its really been a 'White Elephant' if you will forgive the partial pun... as its difficult to overhaul it for other species.

Bristol proved a much smaller defunct Elephant/Giraffe house can be sucessfully converted for Apes and its transformation was recently fully completed. I think the London rhino dens could make suitable Orangutan exhibits- not purpose built, obviously, but they are suitable for conversion in that way. Outside a watermoated exhibit might be best(although I'm not overall in favour of them in some respects- for Orangutans a cage enclosure gives more climbing facilities) But the rhino paddock is already there and I could see how it could be turned into an 'Orangutan Forest' (as it would no doubt be called.) Actually its large enough to be divided(not necessarily in equal halves) to provide exhibits for both Orangutans and another species e.g. sun bears.

As you say, Binturong, Sun bears etc could form subsiduary exhibits in what would then become an 'Asian House'.
 
Those pictures are great, thank you for sharing.

I have made this 'mood board' of ideas for the interior of the Casson Pavillion. I think a great deal could be done without too much expense, regardless of the ultimate inhabitants of the building. Lots of artificial bamboo could create a sense of immersion with none of the drawbacks of maintenance or lack of light.

dlmcyw.jpg


There could be interpretive displays on the unique wildlife of South East Asia and the relationship the region has with ZSL going right back to the early days and the story of Raffles as well as the threats faced by the region today and the dilemmas and challenges of conservation in heavily populated areas.
 
IanRRobinson said:
I would love to have Orangs back, and Sun Bears. But I'm not sure how easily the rhino paddocks could be adapted to hold them. Maybe a group of Banteng (if the rhino paddock was used as one exhibit space) or two from Lowland Anoa, Visayan Warty Pig and Prince Alfred's Deer (if used as two) might be easier.
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I don't think that any large or medium-sized species that climbs could be housed in the Casson building, because so much modification would be required for both the internal and external areas - which would not be allowed by the listed building status. The other species would not cause those problems, but would they make better exhibits than the bearded pigs?

If I were in charge at London Zoo ("and thank the Lord I'm not, sir"), I would be putting all my efforts into de-listing or down-listing the building: after all it is very ugly and quite impractical and all of us should be saying so, as loudly and frequently as possible :)

Alan
 
tennisfan said:
Yes lets hope so .. looking good so far ... piccie loaded at

http://www.zoochat.com/43/venturing-outside-358931/

http://www.zoochat.com/43/venturing-out-2-a-358933/

http://www.zoochat.com/43/venturing-out-3-a-358934/
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Many thanks for the pictures I'm hoping to see them when I'm next there in a few weeks so to see one out now fills me with hope I will.

Shirokuma said:
Those pictures are great, thank you for sharing.

I have made this 'mood board' of ideas for the interior of the Casson Pavillion. I think a great deal could be done without too much expense, regardless of the ultimate inhabitants of the building. Lots of artificial bamboo could create a sense of immersion with none of the drawbacks of maintenance or lack of light.

dlmcyw.jpg


There could be interpretive displays on the unique wildlife of South East Asia and the relationship the region has with ZSL going right back to the early days and the story of Raffles as well as the threats faced by the region today and the dilemmas and challenges of conservation in heavily populated areas.
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I'm unsure with their current longer term plans if they're do something in the interim but the lions, at the earliest, will take them up to Easter 2016. I like your graphics though. I always think a bit more greenery, even if it's fake, would make a difference. It could create a bit of jungley feel with the limited light.
 
I would personally question whether there is a need to refurbish the interior of the Casson, I think the refurbishment of the Tapir outdoor exhibits was very effective and masked the ugliness of the building. If they could put such outdoor exhibits all around - ideal for suids, tapirs and grazing bovids (i.e. the bearded pigs, Visayan Warty Pigs or Anoa) then I think that would compliment that area of the zoo very well.
 
gentle lemur said:
I don't think that any large or medium-sized species that climbs could be housed in the Casson building, because so much modification would be required for both the internal and external areas - which would not be allowed by the listed building status. The other species would not cause those problems, but would they make better exhibits than the bearded pigs?

If I were in charge at London Zoo ("and thank the Lord I'm not, sir"), I would be putting all my efforts into de-listing or down-listing the building: after all it is very ugly and quite impractical and all of us should be saying so, as loudly and frequently as possible :)

Alan
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I think nearly everybody would wish that the damn thing had never been built, Alan. But it would cost a phenomenal amount to demolish. As for the Bearded Pigs; firstly, they really don't need the paddock space that has been provided; and secondly, the boars have been castrated so they're not a long term option anyway.:rolleyes:
 
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