I meant ones currently housing geriatric herds exclusively like Audubon Milwaukee or Cheyenne etc. My apologies if I forgot to specify
most of those zoos are phasing out of elephants. Thats why we are seeing many being sent to TES.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter The Horse Boy
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most of those zoos are phasing out of elephants. Thats why we are seeing many being sent to TES.
The Horse Boy
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Tulsa and Cleveland are already built to manage breeding herds. I wouldn't doubt Milwaukee as it's a newer facility that opened in 2019 and they openly stated they can accomodate a bull, so we'll just have to wait and see. Maryland also looks like they're going to house bachelors in the next few years (should there be a plethora of adolescent bulls to choose then) or so as one of the elder cows past away only last fall. The only geriatric facilities that are really in limbo for the future would be Audubon and Colorado Springs.
I’m not sure what Audubon focuses on but Cheyenne focuses so much on their giraffes. I would think they are keeping their elephants and hold any non reproductive cows replacing any losses they occur.
San Antonio (or El Paso?) and Knoxville are planning on having elephants again as per their recent announcements.
The Horse Boy
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I don't think El Paso could ever even consider returning to elephants. They're way too landlocked to build a large habitat from scratch. And i don't think Knoxville has any definitive plans about elephants.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
The facilities with geriatric or otherwise post-reproducive groups are as follows (Note that I have excluded sanctuaries or other very small non-aza facilities that are likely to not receive more elephants)
Asian
- Buttonwood Park Zoo (0.1)
- Bronx Zoo (0.2)
- Little Rock Zoo (0.2)
- Honolulu Zoo (0.2)
- Audubon Zoo (0.3)
- Busch Gardens (0.4)
- Dickerson Park zoo (2.2)
- Tulsa Zoo (3.4)
African
- Cameron Park Zoo (0.1)
- Milwaukee County Zoo (0.3)
- Montgomery Zoo (0.3)
- Roger Williams Park Zoo (0.3)
- Jacksonville Zoo (1.2)
- Atlanta Zoo (2.2)
- Maryland Zoo (2.1)
- Seneca Park Zoo (0.3)
- Cleveland Zoo (0.4)
- International Conservation Center (1.3)
- Memphis Zoo (0.5)
- Cheyenne Mountain Zoo (0.5)
- Six Flags Great Adventure (0.5)
- North Carolina Zoo (2.4)
African and Asian
- Miami Zoo (1.1 and 0.2)
- Topeka Zoo (0.1 and 0.1)
Of these, a vast majorjty are going to phase out (As ZCChip said). Most zoos with older elephant exhibits just don't have the space or finances to build an entire new complex.
Of the Asian holders, I'd say it's fairly likely that Little Rock, Audubon and Dickerson will keep the species (And of course Tulsa is already well equipped) and rennovate/build new complexes. Bronx has the space and ability, but I'm not holding my breath with them. All the other listed facilities are either confirmed phase outs or are unfit for other reasons.
As for the Africans, Cleveland, Jacksonville, ICC and North Carolina are the strongest canidates that will build new programs imo. I'd say Cheyenne Mountain, Atlanda, Memphis and Milwaukee are strong contenders too
I also feel like Miami is likely to retain one of their programs, but only time will tell which, if either, will win out.
The Horse Boy
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I think when ZCChip mentioned that most of the geriatric facilities are destined for a phase-out they meant ones with outdated programs, many of which are too compacted or underfunded for a proper exhibit. I was only referring to geriatrics in newer exhibits already capable of holding proper herds in the future with hardly any upgrades. Here's a list of post reproductive holders I think are definitely phase out candidates and ones which will retain elephants with new programs over time- some of which I've gone over earlier on the thread.
Phase outs or zoos with an uncertain future-
- Cameron Park.
- Buttonwood Park
- Little Rock
- Montgomery
- Bronx
- Rodger Williams
- Seneca Park
- Topeka
- Busch Gardens
- Honolulu
- Audubon
- Atlanta
- Milwaukee
- Maryland
- ICC
- Toledo
- North Carolina (they do have a young cow who needs to bred by a proven bull asap)
- Jacksonville (they still plan to give their complex a facelift)
- Miami (I belive with Asians)
- Cleveland
- Cheyenne Mountain
- Dickerson Park (needs a large enclosure and barn upgrade)
- Memphis
- Tulsa
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Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Little Rock has a well established history and reputation with elephants, and have expressed interest in making a larger exhibit in the past. Their small size is absolutely a barrier, but if ANY of the smaller zoos would keep the species I would think Little Rock would push to make that effort. There were discussions years back about them purchasing more land to devote to elephant space, but granted that was a long while ago now.
Batir is almost certianly out of her reproductive window by now unfortunately. The facility likely will obtain new individuals once more of their older elephants pass.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
That's true as she's about 23 now. And lucky for us, we know there's an abundance of African matrilines that can certainly fit that bill. IMHO moving Louie in 2021 there was a very misguided if not terrible match for Batir as her breeding bull.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I suppose there some viable parcels of land on that park on the other side of 2 streets ringing around it they can use. They have never gone public about their future plans with elephants atp. But they will need to decide in the near future as they have 2 elderly cows on site now. We know there's some zoos more or less it's size with great facilities like Atlanta Fresno and Reid Park
I will state what I know but understand that information may have changed ever since.
Buttonwood Park - two older girls that really do not get along with each other at times. Good candidate for sanctuary if the Zoo ever sends them away. One of the girls has an old injury to her tail from the other elephant constantly biting down on it. Too small enclosure to have elephants and they have stated they will not have elephants again.
Montgomery Zoo - they could have a small breeding herd focusing on building a matriline focusing on Tonji. Uncertain about what bull may come. Shes 12/13 years old so its time to bring in a bull for her.
North Carolina Zoo - right now their "breeding program" is bust. They have not tried to breed Batir at all. The bulls there are non-breeders, or sterile (Csar I believe). Basically, it's just a collection of elephants roaming a large area.
Dickerson Park - they usually manage the difficult elephants, so I would not count on any improvement until the elephants pass away or be moved. It used to be a main breeding hub but no more since Onyx and Buke died. They may even phase out or just focus on bulls. They have had several bulls over the years.
Memphis - I have been to Memphis and five elephants in a stamp sized exhibit. Insane. I do not know how they can manage all five elephants in a small space. All the talk about building and improving the zoo over the years. Nothing has happened as of yet.
Several zoos with the modern facilities seem to be planning on keeping elephants long term, especially older cows such as Cincinnati, Cheyenne and Atlanta. I do not think Atlanta is planning to breed elephants at this point seeing two older cows and one non breeding bulls. Only Titan is a proven producer with AI, so who knows what will happen in long term with him. But right now, the two cows are not able to produce.
Buttonwood Park - two older girls that really do not get along with each other at times. Good candidate for sanctuary if the Zoo ever sends them away. One of the girls has an old injury to her tail from the other elephant constantly biting down on it. Too small enclosure to have elephants and they have stated they will not have elephants again.
Montgomery Zoo - they could have a small breeding herd focusing on building a matriline focusing on Tonji. Uncertain about what bull may come. Shes 12/13 years old so its time to bring in a bull for her.
North Carolina Zoo - right now their "breeding program" is bust. They have not tried to breed Batir at all. The bulls there are non-breeders, or sterile (Csar I believe). Basically, it's just a collection of elephants roaming a large area.
Dickerson Park - they usually manage the difficult elephants, so I would not count on any improvement until the elephants pass away or be moved. It used to be a main breeding hub but no more since Onyx and Buke died. They may even phase out or just focus on bulls. They have had several bulls over the years.
Memphis - I have been to Memphis and five elephants in a stamp sized exhibit. Insane. I do not know how they can manage all five elephants in a small space. All the talk about building and improving the zoo over the years. Nothing has happened as of yet.
Several zoos with the modern facilities seem to be planning on keeping elephants long term, especially older cows such as Cincinnati, Cheyenne and Atlanta. I do not think Atlanta is planning to breed elephants at this point seeing two older cows and one non breeding bulls. Only Titan is a proven producer with AI, so who knows what will happen in long term with him. But right now, the two cows are not able to produce.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Buttonwood Park only has one elephant, Emily. Ruth passed away last year, but her and Emily were decades long companions and got along very well. They have stated no more elephants though so they're a safe one to "cross off".
If I'm remembering correctly (which anyone can correct me if I'm wrong), Montgomery is in a similar situation to where Hogle was in that they are not fit to hold a bull.
A lot of facilities are in unfit places currently given their current set of individuals. But for places like North Carolina, Dickerson, etc It's a strong chance we'll see the tides change once their older animals pass away/are sent to TES.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Montgomery did house a younger bull 2 decades ago to breed with a few of their cows, which was Sdudla in Tampa now, and thr only viable cow there now is Tonji who is in fact his daughter. But i still question if the facility if spacious or sturdy for adult males. About Hogle, wasn't one of the reasons they phased out 2 years ago was because that enclosure wasn't bull-proof and it would br too time consuming to reinforce it?
It may be space or they may be unwilling to hold a bull due to personalities also. They have an older cow, and she may have a strong personality. I just had a thought, Titan may be the candidate to move to Montgomery at the right time. It would be only a day trip. We will see.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Ah I see, I probably was mixing them up with Hogle.
On that subject, yes one of the primary reasons why Hogle phased out was due to their inability to house bulls. Building a new complex wasn't really an option with their available space, and the clock was ticking on Zuri's reproductive window.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
If that were to happen, they'd have to renovate the exhibit and barrn and make them much larger to meet current standards. The other issue is that they have been un-affiliated with the AZA since abt 2013 iirc. I'm not sure they'd be allowed to take in bulls from other facilities across the country if they are not AZA accredited.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Isn't it true that many of the older enclosures are unfit for bull housing? Why was that if so? I belive new AZA standards incorporate the ability for renovated or brand new complexes to house them regardless of what they start with. And these prob have been implemented for roughly 15-20 years nowAh I see, I probably was mixing them up with Hogle.
On that subject, yes one of the primary reasons why Hogle phased out was due to their inability to house bulls. Building a new complex wasn't really an option with their available space, and the clock was ticking on Zuri's reproductive window.
Montgomery zoo can enter a SSP agreement with any AZA zoo. The elephant exhibit was built in 2005 so it’s quite modern.
I think from the UK examples (such as Emmen with their old enclosure) the issue is keeping the surplus bull calves until they can be moved. There is no room for them. Most older habitats are unable to do this. It used to be when an elephant dies, another can be purchased quite easily. But that’s not the case anymore.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
And with some US facilities like Cameron Park Louisville San Antonio Norfolk Buttownwood Park etc
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
One thing's for sure, we've already seen a considerable phase out with the number geriatric herds in recent year wether or not the facilities are spacious and modern or constricted and antiquated, and whether or not the zoos will continue with or phase out elephants keeping, as with Los Angeles San Diego Smithsonian etc. The only real holders that are fundamental in the long run are breeding and/or bachelor groupings. I have a gut feeling Memphis might switch herd types once their new complex opens (if they send their old cows to TES as it's maybe 3 hours away).