Franklin Zoo (Closed) Elephant Kills Woman at Franklin Zoo

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Steve Robinson said:
Although I staunchly defend the right of properly trained and experienced people to interact FC with suitable adult Big Cats, I can think of no sensible reason why members of the public should do so. I am yet to be convinced that public interaction with Big Cats in excess of 20kg is about anything more than raising money. The risks are just not worth the money.
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I guess the important words are " properly trained and experienced people"

On my first visit to Zion I saw one handler walking a two year old bengal tiger on a leash amongst the public, and a member of public taken into enclosures with full grown lions and tigers to pat them.

No No No!!!!
 
I think there are some obvious differences that have been mentioned a few times already. The trip from NZ to the US would probably be quieter and more peaceful than the noise made by the years of protesters ;)
 
The article doesn`t mention with a single word that the crate training took 2 years. The "move 2 years in making" refers to the time-consuming process within the zo and the city council to make the decision what to do with the elephants.

I don`t get the strong emphasis on Tony R. in this thread - the beauty of protect contact is that almost everyone who knows how to do it can work with any elephant - even with big highly aggressive bulls that would kill any human entering their paddock within seconds - after just a few days/ a few weeks max. Get over someone who is knowledgeable in pc training and Mila will be ready for her move within a month or so, probably less!! Heck, she`s a circus elephant and getting her in a crate will take much less time then getting the paperwork ready and organizing the move. And even Elephants that have never ever been moved can be moved without ANY crate training if necessary - give them a sedative and pull them into a crate with a winch. That is not pretty, but it has been done often and could certainly been done here if the alternative is euthanazation.
My guess is that Helen`s sister is dragging the process to use Mila for fundraising some months longer (to gain time to find homes for the other animals?!), while Helen never really wanted her to go at all.

So no need at all to bring in someone who is not a zoo professional, but 100% from a circus background, and who most likely will not fit into a zoo team alone due to the vastly different background and work ethics. I personally would not bring someone over who has proved that he has a completely "different" understanding of the ethics of elephant keeping then modern zoos by dragging around an elephant in a circus all alone for decades. But there are a lot more reasons not to involve him now.
 
The beauty of using someone with Tony Ratcliffe's knowledge of this particular elephant, and undeniable skill in handling her, is that she won't have to be sedated and pulled into a crate with a winch.

Mr Ratcliffe's work ethic and background also ensures that a team of just himself and an assistant could do the job rather than an extensive team of zoo "experts" all with their snouts in the trough.

Your assessment of Helen and her sister is pretty well spot on, I think, but I have no idea what you are referring to in your last sentence.
 
good point, i missed the inference re the two years.

I agree with your sentiments although I disagree with what you're saying about Jenny. Must be very difficult to lose your sister, and then be slammed in the media while you're grieving. Glad I'm not her right now.
 
I phoned TONY and asked him if he has had any ZOO EXPERIENCE , he retrained MALINI at AUCKLAND ZOO , and worked Kamalah at WELLINGTON ZOO , trained a young elephant called Nirvana for WELLINGTON ZOO . he has a good grounding on ZOO ELEPHANTS , and trained many of his staff including myself to work Jumbo , several times TONY went over seas for three weeks at a time , and i worked JUMBO around the circus and inside the ring , TONY knows what he is doing when working with elephants , so Yassa does not know what he is talking about ,
 
I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if it already has been said but why can't Jumbo/Mila be sent to Dubbo to company their lone female Cuddles?
 
Jabiru96 said:
I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if it already has been said but why can't Jumbo/Mila be sent to Dubbo to company their lone female Cuddles?
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No IRA for African elephants into Australia.

If there had been one, Jumbo would now be travelling Australia with Weber's Circus Loritz.
 
sharonbm said:
I agree with your sentiments although I disagree with what you're saying about Jenny. Must be very difficult to lose your sister, and then be slammed in the media while you're grieving. Glad I'm not her right now.
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I think that it is important to recognise that just about everybody who has posted on this thread started out with a great deal of sympathy for all of Helen's loved ones.

Unfortunately Jenny herself soured a lot of that good feeling toward her by her greed and refusal to act in the best interests of Jumbo.

Not sure about your comments about the media slamming her. From what I've seen, the media have given her a dream run.

Like you, I would hate to be in her shoes at this time but she certainly isn't doing herself any favours.

I guess that she's in an awkward position of their own making. On the one hand they've been blaming Tony Ratcliffe and the circus for what they have untruthfully claimed to be Jumbo's problems. Now they have to find a way to admit that he is the best person to relocate her. The chickens are coming home to roost.
 
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sharonbm said:
That's harsh Steve
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I think they are really going to struggle to find someone other than Tony with the right experience willing to take that job. Id imagine most people with the right experience would already be employed as an elephant keeper and would be.highly unlikely to give it up. One zoo, Auckland I believe, even hinted at this in a media statement. and he would cost significantly less to relocate. Surely you can see a reason for criticism when there is an easy and more affordable putting his hand up despite the continued shots at him.
 
HE has had nearly 30 years with jumbo in front of the people of New Zealand and the Islands , I travelled with him and Jumbo to New Caledonia and was his back up with Jumbo in those places , TONY knows what he is doing and jumbo never travelled any where with out him , they were inseperable and i know he is doing it hard about Helens death , no body likes to see a tragedy happen like happened with his beloved jumbo , it was his dream for some one like Helen to have his Pet , even though Helen did not want any dialogue with him with regard to diet or commands , i think she listened to outsiders
 
sharonbm said:
That's harsh Steve
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I am sorry if you feel that way.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the situation as I see it.

I think that the lies that have been told about the elephant and her former owner are even more harsh.

Is it not also harsh for Mrs Chung to continually threaten to kill the elephant unless people give her more money?

It is a truly harsh situation. Fortunately Jumbo will be blissfully unaware of the situation.
 
Well nothing seems to be happening from where I am!

I, as an outsider cannot, repeat, cannot see why anyone would have objections about Tony Ratcliffe helping here.


Has anyone got any evidence that he mistreated Jumbo?

I havent heard or seen any .

I dont hear anyone suggesting a better alternative.

Whats happening?

Is she in good health?

Who is looking after her?

Is she being inspected by anyone in authority?

Indeed, is there anyone in authority?

I would love to know.
 
where did you get that crazy idea from , JUMBO has been always treated like TONYS family who ever said that needs to front up fast ., because that is an out right dumb lie , I am beginning to wonder if some of you have any brains , especially asking the craziest of questions , any body who ill treated jumbo would not last 5 minutes with TONY , HE WAS VERY PROTECTIVE OF JUMBO , THEY HAD A BIG FOLLOWING THROUGH OUT THE PACIFIC , and he loved her to bits , that i can confirm
 
I am starting to wonder how many more absurd statements have been made in regard to jumbo and Tony , maybe you should talk to his Veterinarian Dr Brian Gartrell , he was jumbos Vet from nearly day one , when Jumbo arrived , and jumbo only had to sneeze and Tony was on the phone to him , I doubt if you would find any thing wrong with Tony and jumbos relationship .
 
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