taun
Well-Known Member
She is in Tsavo 2, sometimes you can see her and the other two rhinos out and about if you get there early enough
Chester Zoo Pregnant Rhino
- Thread starter mjmorg89
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She is in Tsavo 2, sometimes you can see her and the other two rhinos out and about if you get there early enough
Chester Zoo has invested all its resources into a state-of-the-art breeding complex for black rhinos. Rosie is integral to that strategy. To send her away is a no-goer as far as stress etcetera is concerned. I would favour leaving her where she is and initiate AI procedures on her (the technique is now so well advanced that a black rhino is currently pregnant by AI). I suppose the management feels the same way. Viz the unsocial behaviour she displays to other male rhinos will not subside through a transfer to PL. Similar behaviour cost Jos the earth at ZSL and once he was finally translocated to PL he went on to become a successful breeder ... yet is stressed up environment at ZSL with Rosie probably had some degree of resonance in his early death ...!
Jelle- You are contradicting yourself here. You say Jos showed similar behaviour at ZSL but went on to be a successful breeder at Port Lympne. So its possible it might work for Rosie too though her case is probably more extreme than Jos who was a comparatively normal bull, whereas its important to note that Rosie unfortunately does seem not to be socially normal, probably owing to her background.
Her housing/management at Chester is also probably a lot less stressful than her earlier period at London living in a much smaller enclosure. Incidentally for most of her time at Chester she lived in the old original Rhino house, though she is now in one of the new complexes.
You are right that as a fully mature female her behaviour is likely to remain unchanged even in different surroundings. However,as you perhaps are aware, Port Lympne do have a much more 'relaxed' management policy with their black rhinos which are generally kept in pairs and trios on a semi- permanent basis. At Port Lympne a bull will be mixed with one or more females and stay with them until the females become pregnant. There is none of the frequent 'introduction sessions' and separations necessary in some other zoos with smaller paddocks. For much of the time the Rhinos also have access to their paddocks 24/7- unlike at Chester where the rhinos are shut in and let out on a daily basis and spend a higher percentage of the time inside than out. If you watch the black rhinos at Chester they are frequently to be seen standing waiting to be let back indoors because they are habituated to being fed/feel more secure inside- that doesn't happen at Port Lympne because their habits are quite different..
With a problem animal like 'Rosie' the Port Lympne style of management might suit her better, as it did her former partner Jos and several other Blacks sent there from other zoos (that includes her own parents).
On the other hand, if AI CAN ne made to work for her at Chester, then its perhaps better they keep her indefinately, as a move to Port Lympne would obviously create more stress for her, but I wouldn't discount the Port Lympne option entirely.
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Pertinax,
I am not contradicting myself here. Rosie had a serious social attitude problem with bulls at ZSL and also now at Chester. It is not likely to change at PL as it has everything to do with the manner of handraising from the calf stage.
Quinto at Chester was an already proven bull, whereas Jos was not. Both had been fully socialised in their early childhood days as opposed to Rosie. Jos - when transferred to PL - became what he had been trying all along at ZSL is to breed with available cows. At ZSL, Rosie would not allow him to ....
Jos became increassingly frustrated when sensing that Rosie was not interested in mating while being in oestrus. That is the reason why Jos did not breed before leaving for PL.
Jos was a fully socialised bull, yet I suspect that his tour at ZSL had made such an impact that his health was seriously comprimised, which was later expressed by his untimely death at PL. I have yet to get confirmation of this though ... (so for now this latter part is mere speculation).
I am not contradicting myself here. Rosie had a serious social attitude problem with bulls at ZSL and also now at Chester. It is not likely to change at PL as it has everything to do with the manner of handraising from the calf stage.
Quinto at Chester was an already proven bull, whereas Jos was not. Both had been fully socialised in their early childhood days as opposed to Rosie. Jos - when transferred to PL - became what he had been trying all along at ZSL is to breed with available cows. At ZSL, Rosie would not allow him to ....
Jos became increassingly frustrated when sensing that Rosie was not interested in mating while being in oestrus. That is the reason why Jos did not breed before leaving for PL.Jos was a fully socialised bull, yet I suspect that his tour at ZSL had made such an impact that his health was seriously comprimised, which was later expressed by his untimely death at PL. I have yet to get confirmation of this though ... (so for now this latter part is mere speculation).
I think it was the way I read it. I accept there's a distinction between Jos(normal) and Rosie(nonsocialised) and what you say about their non-relationship at London is absolutely correct. Also that Rosie's lack of normal rearing and non-socialised status does place her in a different category from all those other rhinos(Jos, Jasper,June, Mama Kidogo, Bwana Mkubwa, Parky & most recently Quinto) which have gone to Port Lympne from ZSL or Chester in the past.
However I still think the Port Lympne very relaxed 'hands-off' management policy might benefit even an animal like Rosie- though I agree that even in those surroundings she would still be unlikely to allow a male near her, in which case AI is the only hope. Perhaps if AI (at Chester) fails then Port Lympne might be the last resort for her, if only as a 'retirement' home. ( maybe if ZSL had persevered in keeping her with her mother this situation wouldn't have arisen..
)
However I still think the Port Lympne very relaxed 'hands-off' management policy might benefit even an animal like Rosie- though I agree that even in those surroundings she would still be unlikely to allow a male near her, in which case AI is the only hope. Perhaps if AI (at Chester) fails then Port Lympne might be the last resort for her, if only as a 'retirement' home. ( maybe if ZSL had persevered in keeping her with her mother this situation wouldn't have arisen..
)
taun
Well-Known Member
Chester Zoo - Kitani and calf venture out
Don't know if this was posted, but the rhinos have been outside...
Don't know if this was posted, but the rhinos have been outside...
taun
Well-Known Member
Ema pregnancy is still going well and is on course for a late may birth.
On other news they do not plan putting sammy in with Manyara incase Kitani gets stressed out, but they are still testing her. They also hinted that Sammy had been had not won other Rosie, but wasn't sure if this was a serious attempt to breed from her.
On other news they do not plan putting sammy in with Manyara incase Kitani gets stressed out, but they are still testing her. They also hinted that Sammy had been had not won other Rosie, but wasn't sure if this was a serious attempt to breed from her.
taun
Well-Known Member
Sorry, say again please...
Sorry, should read things over again.
It was hinted they have looked into seeing if Sammy and Rosie might hit it off and breed.
No doubt it may be worth trying, as are any possibilities to get Rosie to breed.
I am rather sad they will not risk putting Sammy in with Manyara. How long for a missed op? Please opt for the management style of PL and Manyara would have been pregnant ages ago and have delivered a calf of her own!
taun
Well-Known Member
Am just as baffled as you, they used to live together until Kitani got pregnant.
Perhaps its to do with Manyara and Kitani being closely bonded and not wanting to upset Kitani & calf next door- but seems very odd.
Zoogoer2000
Well-Known Member
I thought Manyara was pregnant already and due in May, or is that Ema?
That is Ema (and the father is Chester's other bull, Magadi)
Manyara lives in the same enclosure as Kitani and her calf, but didn't fall pregnant before Sammy was moved.
Nope, incorrect.
I hope Chester zoo management will reconsider and just breed by Manyara. Every year lost brings her a little closer to the deadline for uterine atrophies. Besides, imo she should have been bred when Kitani was put with Sammy (the same mode of breeding/oestrus operation as at PL/JAF). It works and is good for the rhinos. Or she could be put in with Magadi, another option.
K.B.
I'm glad you say she is reproductively healthy- though something was definately mentioned indicating there was a problem.
I think you may find due to her close relationship with halfsister Kitani (they are the same age and have grown up togeher) they may be reluctant to either move her away from Kitani, or bring the male back to the enclosure again, for fear of stressing the mother & calf.
Chester folk- is Manyara currently in with Kitani and the calf (at least outdoors) or is she separated in the Tsavo building?